Trudy Gold
1290 and Expulsions: Where to Go?

Trudy Gold - 1290 and Expulsions: Where to Go

- I will say welcome to everybody.

• [Trudy] Yeah.

• Or actually, I’d like to hand over to you. I’m sure no one wants to listen to me. They would want to listen to you.

• Oh, I think they do but I don’t think they care and I will start then. Thank you. Well, good evening everyone.

• [Wendy] Welcome to everybody and thank you for joining us.

• Okay, thanks Wendy. And good evening everyone. And you can see from the title that last time I looked at the expulsion of the Jews from England. And of course, the question was, where would they go? Now, I cannot give you an absolute detail of what happened to all those individual people. We don’t even know the numbers. Some historians put it as high as 10, others as the low as three. But remember, by the reign of Henry the Third and Edward the First, the community had been impoverished, decimated, and many of them would either have got out before or some would’ve converted. We don’t know, for example, how many people stayed behind who’d converted. Don’t forget that Henry III set up something called the Domus Conversorum, the House of Conversions, where if a Jew converted to Christianity, a man was paid a penny a day for life, a woman, eight pennies a week. That’s it. Yes, I think it’s that way round. So, there was the incentive, there was very much the incentive to convert, but we know where they would’ve first gone because they went on a sea voyage. If you remember the last statute we read, it was the instruction of Edward the First to the people at the ports, to his sheriffs at the ports to allow Jews to get on ships, not to badly treat them. But, of course, we already established that there was one horrific incident with one ship’s captain who was actually hanged for it. But we know they would’ve first gone to France.

Now, I’ve already referred you to a book by Barbara Tuchman called “A Distant Mirror.” And what she’s done is to compare the 1300s with the 20th century and I really was talking about this yesterday, the horrors of the 1300s. And we’re going to see that it’s a very dark time, but I want to be very careful here. It’s a dark time for the Jews, but really it’s a dark time for practically everybody. It’s a period of crop failures, of war, and the worst pandemic in history, if we’re talking about numbers. And even it’s difficult again to ascertain the numbers of the Black Death. Some historians talk about something like a quarter of the population of Europe dying. Others talk about a third of the population of Europe dying and I think William very well illustrated the horror of the Black Death and what it meant. So, but what we do know about the Jews, they would’ve first landed in France. Bearing in mind that France now, that the kings of Europe, it’s very much an upswing in church power. And I’ve already mentioned to you, and of course many of you knew this, but when the church is triumphant, the Jews suffered. And can we see again Innocent the Third? One of the most important popes in history, if we could see his… Yes. I’m going to read to you one of his other descriptions.

We’ve already read some on the Jews. “The Lord made Cain a wanderer and a fugitive "over the earth, but set a mark upon him "lest any finding him should slay him. "Thus the Jews, against whom the blood of Jesus calls out, "although they ought not to be killed, "lest the Christian people forget my Divine Law, "yet as wanderers, they ought they to remain upon the earth "until their countenance is filled with shame "and they seek the name of Jesus Christ, the Lord. "That is why blasphemers of the Christian name "ought not to be aided by Christian princes "to oppress the servants of the Lord, "but ought rather to be forced into the servitude "of what they made themselves deserving "when they raised sacrilegious hands against him "who had come to confer true liberty upon them, "thus calling down His blood upon Himself, "themselves and upon their children.” And here, of course, he is referring to that terrible verse in St. Matthew’s Gospel when the crowd say, “May his blood be upon us and upon our children,” and certain historians like Hyam McAfee, he actually calls that the warrant for genocide. So, what is Innocent saying? Remember, he’s fighting a war against heresy. He’s fighting a war against the Cathars in the south of France.

He’s fighting a war against anyone who is not a true Catholic. The Inquisition has become incredibly powerful under him. He creates the Dominican Order. You have the Dominican. The Dominicans are the Hounds of God, Domini Canes. They are the people who are suppressing heresy. The Catholic church is one of the most extraordinary corporations in the history of the world and certainly one of the most successful. And this is the man, in this period, who is holding it together. And he lives in this religious worldview where the Jew has the mark of Cain because Jesus is born amongst the Jews and yet they repudiate him and even worse they murder him. And later on in the year, Helen Fry, whose PhD was in the relations between Jews and Christians in the first couple of centuries, is going to go into a much more detail about this. So, basically they have the mark of Cain, and now they are in France. Now, back in 1182, King Philip Augustus had expelled Jews from his lands. Now it’s important to remember, at this stage the Capetian Dynasty, the kings of France. Those of you who know France well, will know that it’s that area around Paris. They were his dominions. He confiscated their property and declared all debts to them cancelled. So, in 1182, they are expelled from France. When I’m talking about France, please don’t forget, it’s the area of the Capetian Monarchy around Paris. Where would they have gone? Well, we can presuppose. Many of them would’ve gone down to the south of France. Later on, of course, the Great . Why the South of France?

It’s a fascinating area. I’ve already said to you, I much prefer it to southeast France. Not only is it physically incredibly beautiful, it’s so rich in history. And there once was a semi-autonomous Jewish kingdom called Septimania but in this particular period, the Catholic church is trying very hard to take hegemony back from the various princes. The Count of Toulouse was incredibly important. And these characters, they had as much power as kings. So, he’s going for the love of…. So, what is he going for? He’s going for the love of Jesus because he’s a very religious Catholic. But what else is he going for? He’s not just suppressing heresy. He wants to make sure that these other princes and kings come under the direct rule of the king of France based in Paris. So, it’s important to remember this. And then you have the terrible crusade against the Albigensians or the Cathars in that area where 20,000 of them were murdered. So, this is the kind of monarchy you have in France. His son Louis the ninth, he’s known as St. Louis. His dates were 1226 to 1270. He himself had conducted a campaign against usury. He wanted to free his subjects from their Jewish creditors. And then we come to the reign of Philip the Fair, the King of France. May we see his picture, Judi?

He’s an absolutely fascinating character. Those of you who love history, may I suggest that you actually read a good biography of Philip II of France. There are many of them. One of his nobles actually said of him, “He is neither man nor beast. "He is a statue.” He was a strong king. He was very good looking. He had, in his own life, personal tragedies because his sons are all going to marry women who are proved to be adulterous. They’re all put away. And in the end, he is the last of his dynasty. But not only is he going to move against the Jews, he’s going to move against the Templars. Now, can we see the next slide please? If you don’t mind, Judi? Yes, that is the Île des Juifs. That’s Paris. Beautiful, beautiful Paris. And those of you who love wandering around Paris, this is the more dark side of the city. Philip the Fourth of France, known as the Fair, 1285 to 1314 are his dates. He was a great warrior king. He had bought vast sways of France under his control. In his time, there was a ritual murder and also a host desecration trial in Paris. Now, the host desecration is the notion that Jews would actually go into churches and stick pins in the wafer, which was the blood of Christ or the body of Christ. So, you are looking at these appalling accusations. Now, why did Philip the Fair get involved? Well, to start with, he was a very, very religious man on one level, but something else, money. The reason he turns against the Jews and the Templars is because he fought all these wars.

The treasury was bankrupt and what he wanted was money. And Jews who were accused of too much usuries in interest or of any criminal offence, they are burnt on the Île des Juifs and also in 1307, he goes against the Knights Templar. Now, William has already lectured you on the Knights Templars. They were that order of knights who had protected the road to Jerusalem for the Crusaders. They had become immensely wealthy and were really the bankers. They had huge treasures. And basically Philip wants to get his hands on the treasury. All sorts of rumours were scotched up against the Templars that not only were they heretics, they were devil worshipers, they were blasphemers. Now what is the truth? And later on in the year, I’m going to bring in someone who’s a real expert on the Templars because I think all of these knights, the Templars, the Teutonic Knights, they are absolutely fascinating characters. On paper, they are in the service of God. And many of them, before Philip turns against them, they had the power. They had the power of monarchies. And don’t forget the wealth of the Knight’s Templars and their famous last commander. Can we see his picture, please?

Jacque de Molay. Here you see Jacque de Molay. In the end, in 1307, Philip the Fair goes against the Templars. He accuses them of all sorts of crimes of witchcraft, the most bestial crimes. And finally, Jacque de Molay the grand master is tortured and executed in 1314 on the Île des Juifs and it is said, if you love the mices of history, that both the Jews and the Templars brought curses on his house, which led to his destruction. And those of you who love history, Philip the Fair, his sons were weak creatures, but he had a daughter. His daughter Isabella had married… I beg your pardon, Eleanor had married Edward II of England. Edward the First, the great strong king, his son Edward II, a very weak character, probably gay. He married the daughter of Philip the Fair and he had a child by her who of course becomes Edward the Third. And because his brothers all had no children, that is how England claimed the Kingdom of France. Edward the Third, the grandson of Philip the Fair, claims the throne of France for England. And that of course leads to the 100 Years War. And also Eleanor was an incredibly strong woman. She rebelled against her husband, this extraordinarily weak king with all his favourites. He was a very, very loose individual, very corrupt. And she actually teamed up with one of the major barons, Mortimer, and marries him. So, it’s an extraordinary story. Sometimes it brings history to life for you. But I thought I’d bring this all together because this is the kind of world the Jews are facing. They’re thrown out of England.

France is becoming more and more dangerous for them. In 1306, after the burnings, they were expelled and the treasury took all debts owing to the Jews. He was also known, by the way, as the Iron King. So, he said that both the Templars and the Jews were a state within a state. And that isn’t what he wanted. Remember his kingdom was based in Paris. He expands the kingdom to make it a very large country. He wants to get rid of all the Dukes, the Lords who have so much power. He want not to get rid of them. He wants them to claim obeisance to him. So, basically he needs money. He’s up to his neck in debt to the Jews and the Templars. So, get rid of them. And this is where you have the vulnerability of the Jew. You know anybody who suggests to you that in the diaspora there is such a thing as Jewish power, I find it absolutely extraordinary because all you have to do is to look at Jewish history. Yes, there can be people at certain times who are important, but if they lose the favour of the Lord or master, or whatever, then there’s nothing for them and they are expelled. So, where would they have gone? Ah, now if we’re talking about our Jews from England, where would they have gone? It’s only 20 odd years on now. They might have moved into the German lands. Now remember, Germany is divided up into a series of separate Fiefdoms. And what is true is that throughout the 13th century, new communities were established in the German lands. They were a very important source of revenue for the Holy Roman Emperor. Now, when the Holy Roman Emperor was strong, it was in the interests of him to keep the Jews safe.

And we know that Bohemia, Austria, Hungary, they all received charters protecting the life, the freedom, and the freedom of movement property of the Jews. Because at this stage, they are useful. We also know that when the mob comes to the fore, for example, in 1298, plundering gangs mainly in debt to the Jews egged on by the lesser nobility would through the Jewish sections of town and just plunder and steal. There’s more strife in 1336. But they’re surviving in certain communities in the German lands. But then, everything goes horrifically wrong. Why? Because of what William has already talked about, the coming of the Black Death. There’s a brilliant book by Philip Ziegler called “The Black Death.” Can we have a look at the next image please, Judi? You got it, Judi? Yeah. I want you to imagine a mediaeval view of a pandemic. I want you to think about people dying in their droves. As Williams said when he was talking about England, sometimes whole villages were wiped out. It was the worst catastrophe in living memory. Modern living memory. Beyond living memory. Look a fourth or a third of the population of Europe die of the Black Death. And it takes eight years for it to ravage through Europe and it led to all sorts of extreme movements. Like for example, the Flagellants.

These were itinerant bands who would go around whipping themselves basically saying, “It’s because of our sins "that this is happening to us. "It’s because of our sins "that God has brought divine punishment on us.” Look, even today, in a much more sophisticated world, where we have the the COVID crisis, where we also have vaccinations to deal with it, and we are inverted commerce more sophisticated, the world is awash with conspiracy theories. Look, the enlightenment, that lovely dream of the 18th century, that we could all, if we were educated, cultivated to a certain level, that we could in fact espouse cultivation and become rational. Well, we all know that yes, there is rationality in each one of us, but there’s also the irrational. We have both sides to our natures and psychologically, if we think of the horror of the Black Death. People looking for answers. There were all sorts of Orgiastic groups. Take humanity to its lowest denominator. You also had some incredible signs of bravery where villages knowing that it had hit them, shut themselves off waiting to die so that it didn’t affect other sections of the population. So, but of course the Black Death was… It’s beyond imagination. Phillip Ziegler’s book is absolutely brilliant. It spread throughout the whole of Europe. Now, but along with it spread the notion of blame. Who could have caused the Black Death? And it appears that not as many Jews died as the rest of the population. There isn’t enough evidence. This is theories that historians put forward. Is it because of the ritual washing of hands? Is it about cleanliness?

Who knows. But the point is the mob decided that the Jews must have poisoned the wells. And it’s actually the Flagellants, and hermits, and other religious fanatics who are atoning for the sins of Christendom. Well, then let’s murder the devils, the Jews. So, they become more and more vulnerable. Because when are Jews at their most vulnerable? In an age of social breakdown and here you have a recurrent plague, protracted feudal wars, and economic stagnation. And we also know that on an individual basis there were good relations between Jews and Christians. But when you whip up the mob, who do you blame? You blame the other and in Christian Europe the Jews were the real other. Now, today, this whole issue of prejudice and where it comes from and how we deal with it is so important. If we can unlock what makes us prejudge. And I think other groups have a lot to learn from Jewish history because unfortunately we’ve kind of faced it for 2,000 years. How do you deal with prejudgment? How do you deal? To quote Yuri Slezkine, who I often mention, “It made us entrepreneurial, "it made us ready,” today we would say with the suitcase packed, “and this time "there was somewhere to go.” And that was to the Kingdom of Poland. Now, this is quite a story.

Now, I’m going to talk a little bit about a man called Abraham ben Jacob or Ibrahim ibn Yaqub. He was a traveller. He was working for the Spanish, for the Muslim courts based in Cordova. Abd al-Raḥmān III. And he actually went on a tour probably as an ambassador through Central and Eastern Europe. And he went, it seems, on a delegation to Otto the First of the German lands. He was probably also a doctor because Otto was in fact the Holy Roman emperor. We know that he went to Mainz, he went to Prague, he went to Bohemia. And we get a lot of evidence of what Jewish life was like. We don’t know if he was a Jew who’d converted to Islam or whether he was still a Jew. There’s a lot of historic debate over that. But the point is, from our perspective, he was a brilliant chronicler. And he describes the settlements he met, he saw in Eastern Europe. He describes Prague as a major centre of world trade used by Jewish traders. Don’t forget, and when Wendy and I got back from Baku, of course, I told you about the caravansarais, and we’ve been to one that was on the route that eventually would’ve led to China. But there are other roots that lead through Eastern Europe because even in times of horror, as you all know, courts they need the spices, they need the furs, they need the silks. And who’s one of the main traders in this area? It is the Jews.

They’re known as the Radhanites and we will run a session on that. He’s brilliant in the way he describes social and economic conditions. He also describes how people trade, prices, currency. He also gives us wonderful descriptions of churches and pagan sites. And what is also fascinating, he gives us the first impressions of Poland. We know also that the merchants dealt in slaves. What for? They were to serve as soldiers in the Islamic Empire. They dealt mainly also in weaponry. And we know that they didn’t just pay with coins, they paid with pepper, with ginger, with cloves, with fabric. So, it’s the spices. Cloves is a preservative. So, they are, if you like, the wheels that make society work. That is one of the reasons the Jews survive. Yes, you have this appalling excesses, but they are money lenders, and they are merchants, and they are necessary. So, gradually Jewish settlements are established in Eastern Europe, in Krakow. Can we see the next slide, please? Now, I’m going to do something really naughty. Can you jump onto that and then jump back? This is Kazimierz. Now, this is from the wonderful museum Polin. Kazimierz was the Jewish town just outside the main city of Krakow. And those of you who have never visited Krakow, of course with it is the darkness of Auschwitz, which is 80 kilometres from there. But on the other hand, the Jewish section of town was not destroyed because the Nazis, they liked Krakow, and that monster Frank put up at the wonderful castle. And he desecrated the Jewish quarter, but he didn’t destroy it.

And here you can get an authentic smell of what it must have once been like. Now, can you go back to that? Now, this is very, very interesting. 1264, Boleslav the Pious. This is the first act of legislation pertaining to the Jews of Poland. And those of you who are avid readers of the press will know that there has been some appalling situations in Poland where… This is a facsimile. The original charter does not exist. This is a facsimile again from a wonderful description, a book, which is an incredible book called “Polin” on the Jewish museum in Warsaw, which by the way I think is one of the great museums of the world. You will know that a group of Polish fascists burnt a facsimile of this. It’s all tied up with Polish nationalism. Not wanting refugees in from Belarus. And what is interesting about this, because somebody asked me a question yesterday, this is anti-Semite. This is anti-Semitism. This is prejudice against all sorts of groups against refugees. What about the laws of the United Nations? Why aren’t they doing something about it? And I actually spoke to Ruth Ghiat because I thought well she’ll know and she told me every country there is a veto. Hungary and Poland have a non-aggression pack. So, the EU cannot expel Poland because Hungary will veto it. So, I thought it was rather prescient that I’m actually showing you the charter of Boleslav, which is the first charter really inviting the Jews in. Now, why? Poland is a vast country and later on it is going to, through a marriage, incorporate with Lithuania and even later on it’s going to take over that area we know as the Ukraine.

It’s going to become one of the most important countries in Europe and its major currency is salt. Just outside Krakow, there are the salt mines. You go deep into the bowels of the earth where they have basically carved a city out of salt, including a replica of the great Polish Pope, who of course as Cardinal Roncalli was so instrumental in saving Jews in Bulgaria. So, it’s pragmatic. Here you have this merchant class coming into a country where you’re going to have the largest nobility per capita of any country in the world and a peasant population who is going to oil the wheels of the economy. So, it’s almost shared England, France, the German lands, the Black Death, Poland is opening its doors. And I’m going to read a few of the clauses from the statute of Roncalli. The statute. Should a Jew be taken to court? Not just a Christian must testify against him, but also a Jew for the case to be considered valid. We’re not going to just take Christian testimony. I should also mention that the charter invites German traders in as well. So, you have kings who are trying to build up a stable mediaeval economy. If only Christians shall sue a Jew asserting that he has pawn securities with him and the Jew denies it, then if the Christian refuses to accept the word of the Jew, the Jew by taking oath must be free of the Christian. As punishment for killing a Jew, a suitable punishment and confiscation of property is necessary. For striking a Jew, the usual punishment in the country applies. Jews should not pay for the transport of their dead. Christians destroying cemeteries will lose their assets. Any Jew may freely and securely walk or ride without any let or hindrance.

They shall pay customary tolls just as Christians do and nothing else. If any of the Christians rationally and presumptuously jeer up their synagogues, such a Christian shall be required to pay two talents of pepper as punishment. No Christian may summon any Jew into the ecclesiastical courts in any way whatsoever. Jews are allowed to purchase any items, bread or any other food. So, this is very, very interesting, isn’t it? So, this is almost a charter of freedom. And the other point to make after the collapse of the slave trades, Jewish knowledge of money and also the money of different currencies, and other countries, and the different languages made them the monetary experts. Most rulers, princes, and kings are going to have Jews as mint masters. And this is interesting. There was a blood libel and this is how the king dealt with it. In accordance with the decrees of the popes, we strictly prohibit anyone in the future from accusing any Jew living in our country of consuming human blood. Since by the tenets of their law, all Jews should refrain completely from consuming blood. Now, what we’re also going to see out of this, it begins with this, and there are other charters, there’s going to be charters ratified. That what this does is almost create a state within a state. What is going to happen is now… And I should mention that the House of Piast is going to take over. Boleslaw is the House of Piast and it’s going to last until 1370.

And it’s at that stage in 1370 when the 11-year-old daughter of the last King Casimir married the pagan Jogaila who was the King of Lithuania. His price was conversion. They became joint rulers of Poland and Lithuania. She was created Saint Jadwiga. She was 21 when she died in childbirth. So, important. So, more of the kingdom is annexed and also Christianity was worn quite lightly at this stage in Poland. It grows. By 1500, there are over 100 Jewish settlements in Poland. Every aspect of Jewish life. A huge range of trades, cloths, skins, furs, wax, lead, salt, which is the main currency of Poland. The poor Jews, what did they do? Crafts, furriers, tanners, haberdashers, butchers, bakers, tailors, grain dealers, beer, vodka, and the innkeepers. You know, it’s fascinating. I’m now talking about the origins of the families of three quarters of the people online. I’m presupposing that three quarters of you come from Eastern Europe. Your families, and this is how it all began. And basically what happens under the Piast Dynasty, starting with Boleslaw, that charter that the fascist in Poland are now saying, “We don’t want. "We don’t want the Jews in Poland.” We’ll talk about that at the end if you like. They set up almost a kingdom within a kingdom and in return for being the tax farmers administering the larger states. Come on. Do you think the nobles want to run the estates? Do you think the nobles want to run the lease holds? Who do you think it was when they conquered Ukraine? Who do you think it was that went into the Ukraine to parcel up the country for the nobility? It was the Jews. So, they are absolutely central to the Polish economy.

And because the Piast Dynasty is playing fair, they allow them to actually almost create a kingdom within a kingdom. It’s fascinating because one of the… In the city of Breslau, this is a comment made by the Archbishop of Krakow. “In view of the fact that Poland is a new plantation "on the soil of Christianity, "there is reason to fear that her Christian populations "will fall an easy prey to the influence "of the superstitious and easy beliefs "of the Jews living amongst them. "The more so as the Christian religion took roots "in the heart of the faithful of these countries "at a later date "and in a more feeble manner. "For these reasons, we must strongly enjoin "that the Jews shall not live side by side "with the Christians, but shall live apart "in some section of the city or village.” In fact, this doesn’t happen. Although Jews themselves more or less choose to live their own religious way of life. And it’s fascinating because there must have been a lot of interaction between Poles and Jews, Lithuanians and Jews, Ukrainians and Jews. But I mean, I remember my friend Felix Sharif, he always said to me, and he’s talking about the 20th century, “We walked the same earth and we looked at the same sky.” And what the Jews themselves do is to set up something called the Council of the Four Lands and this is fascinating. I want you to think trade fairs. I want you to think mediaeval economy. Think some of the great cities where there are trade fairs that meet twice a year. What they do is they divide up the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth for their own purposes into what they call the Council of the Four Lands. The Kahals.

And it really does grow out of the trade fairs where communal leaders come together, Bethines are created, what were they to deal with? Administrative issues, organisational issues, religious questions, and also how do you deal with widows? How do you deal with the poor? Who’s going to administer? Because what the king has basically done, what the kings of Poland have basically done, they’ve allowed the Jews to create a kingdom within a kingdom. As long as these are disputes between Jews, it’s none of our business. You can run your own business and something else. They’re taxed as a community. There was always a Parnasim. One of the leaders of the community who would be at court. Other Parnasim would be at the court of the most important nobles. They would be the ones who would deal with the nobility in any kind of dispute. Obviously, if it was with a Christian, we’ve seen how that’s to be dealt with, but it’s to be dealt with fairly. Now, it’s not going to be rosy all the way, but after the story I’ve just told you of what happened in England, what happened in France, and what happened in the German lands, it’s like Poland is opening up to the Jews for their own meetings. And the Council of the Four Lands becomes the supreme body under the who had access to the Gentile authorities. And now this notion of taxation is fascinating because I think this is something that has never really gone away. Jewish communal responsibility. If you think how Jewish charities work from country to country, I think this is really a legacy of a time when we were a state within a state and we had to look after ourselves.

And in a way I think that is one of the most, to me, I think that’s one of the most profoundly positive aspects of being part of the Jewish community. That there is… People are people, but there is this kind of protective cloak in a world which can be hostile. Anyway, I should also mention Vilnius because when the Queen of Poland married the king of Lithuania, of course the centre was crackled, but Vilnius is now part of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and I think that’s particularly pertinent for our South Africans because I know about 80% of you come from Vilnius. In 1323, it’s first mentioned as the capital of Lithuania. This is a letter of Godimus who built his wooden castle on a hill. And he sent letters, by the way, to Jews and Germans to come and settle there. And they were granted rights by Jogaila, who of course marries Jadwiga and becomes Vladislav. He converts from paganism and it’s a huge territory. I want you to see today. Poland is rather a weak country with all sorts of internal strife. But I want you to switch your mind back. To really up until 1648, Poland was one of the most powerful countries in Europe and it incorporated huge sways of land. It incorporated much of modern Ukraine, Belarus, about which we are hearing so much at the moment, Western Russia, and one of the things they came together on, Lithuania and Poland, was to defeat Hume, the Teutonic Knights. So, can we come onto a lovely story? The last slide, please. Now, this is really a story.

• [Wendy] She’s coming, don’t worry.

• Thank you, thank you. Now this is also from Polin. And Casimir the Great, 1333 to 1370. He’s the last of the Piast Dynasty. Now there is a story. Is it true or not? And I’m quoting now. This is from the Annals of 1480. This is from Jan Długosz, who was a chronicler of the Polish crown. He took a concubine, a woman of Jewish origins, on account of her unusual beauty. He even had two sons by her, Niemera and Pelka. At the request of the said concubine by royal chanter, he granted all the Jews exceptional privileges and liberties. He extended the Charter of Boleslau, which gravely insulted divine majesty. Now, the story first hit a Jewish source in 1592. Is it true or not? Who knows? But the story of Estera. And of course if you can think of the story of Purim, the beautiful Jewish maiden who seduced Achashverosh. Is it true? Isn’t it true? But he was the king who died only leaving a daughter. But the story goes that he had two sons by this Jewish woman. So, to conclude, because I wanted to leave quite a bit of time for questions today, because I think particularly with what’s going on in Poland at the moment, I wanted to go back to a period in Jewish history where you did have relative tranquillity. You had the Council of the Four Lands, and also we have records going back to the reign of Boleslaw just how useful Jews were to the Princes. Think about it. You have a completely illiterate peasant population, a vast territory with really primitive neighbours, and the Jews really have created an alliance with the nobility. Just think about it, let me reiterate. They are their managers. They parcel out the land for them. They control all the leaseholds so that the princes can go off and do whatever princes do. Fight, hunt, shoot fish. I dunno.

They’re the financiers. They supply them with all the loans they need. It meant that the Polish aristocracy could be very free, very proud. But, of course, they were resented by the other merchants because they were given great, great privileges. In 1569, there is the union, the official union, and the Crown moves its capital to Warsaw. And basically you have this elite of nobility who in the Polish lands are relatively tolerant. And also you do find on the fringes of Poland, all sorts of Christian sects like the Physites, the Anabaptist, the Polish Brethren. They also find religious tolerance in the Kingdom of Poland. It would seem that the Piast Dynasty and those that followed right up ‘til the collapse of Poland in 1648, the end of the 30 years war, there was more tolerance. Yes, there were periods, for example, the Warsaw merchants became very, very angry with the Jews. They were jealous of them. They managed to chase them out of town. There were periods of expulsion and horror from certain parts. But we’re talking relativism here. So, in the light of what’s going on in Poland today, and I think you know, the burning of that charter, the facsimile of that charter, it’s almost beshared that I should be lecturing on it today because that charter is incredibly forward thinking.

And remember it is reinforced. It’s reissued by various kings of Poland. So, Jews, to a large extent, felt secure there and later on it’s going to become the home of the great yeshivas and some of the greatest of the Rabonon. All you have to do is think of the Vilna Gaon. The growth of Hasidism. Ba'al Shem Tov, the great clash between Hasidism and traditional orthodoxy. This is the heartland of the Ashkenazi Jewish world. And also Jews from Spain would eventually have made it to Poland. So, I would suggest to you for about 350 years. So, in answer to my question, where did they go? The truth is, I have no idea about individual families. But by looking at Jewish history, you can plot a path. Just as I’ve said to some of you who are very interested in where their families came from, as long as you know the cities, you can probably… And then you know whether they went to South Africa, or to America, or wherever they went. You can usually chart out from where they went, which ports they would’ve come through, et cetera, et cetera. So, let me stop there if that’s all right, Wendy. I dunno if that story’s true, but it’s a lovely story.

• [Wendy] Thanks, Trudy.

Q&A and Comments:

• Oh, this is from Danny. Île des Juifs looks just like New York. It looks like the history of Europe is a history of wars. Yeah, to a large extent,

Q: Rod, do I have any information about the history of the Jews of collaborate in Southern Italy?

A: It is not my subject, but I do know someone who it is.

So, Jan, I’ll try and find out about it.

Q: What language did the Jews in England speak?

A: That is a very good question, Tina. And they spoke Norman French. They saw themselves as an offshoot of the French community. We know that their rabbis came from France and we know that many marriages were arranged with the community. Remember they were brought over by William the Conqueror from Rouen.

Jennifer, the title of the book about the Black Death. It’s called “The Black Death,” by Philip Ziegler. Oh, and Ilana’s put it down. Thank you.

Where was the church in giving emotional support? You have not finished that question, Marilyn. So, I dunno the answer.

Q: And Izzy Pima, what is the name of Barbara Tuchman’s book?

A: “A Distant Mirror.” It’s brilliant. Oh, there’s another book. The “March of Folly.” Yes, that’s about the first World War, Jackie. Yes, and Jennifer, I love you. You could all know you all… You’ll tell each other. I love it.

And this is Karen. “I want to recommend Carl Sagan’s book, "The Demon Haunted World,” plus forgive me if the title isn’t exact, about how people revert to superstition in times of stress. Yes, Norman Cohn, he wrote a great book on this. Oh, I can’t remember the title. It’s behind me, but I won’t go and scramble for it. He was the man who wrote “Warrant for Genocide,” but he also wrote about the Flagellants. “Pursuit of the Millennium.” That’s right. “Pursuit of the Millennium.”

Oh, yes. Another wonderful book on the yearlong plague that struck London by Daniel Defoe, “A Journal of the Plague Year.” And actually David Piman will be looking at Daniel Defoe in January, I think. Wendy and I have just started putting that all together.

Q: Could I repeat the name of the chronicler?

A: Let me just… Ibrahim ibn Yaqub or Abraham ben Jacob. Jennifer, it’s the book I recommend is Philip Ziegler, “The Black Death.”

Q: When did the Jews start to arrive in Poland?

A: Well, he mentioned settlements in Krakow, but they were tiny. It’s after Boleslaw issues his charter. And as things become much worse in the middle of Europe, particularly after the Black Death, they’re going to move in. So, the settlements grow and grow and grow. In fact, let me just check the numbers for you. By 1500, there were 101 Jewish settlements, and that would’ve shtetels or small towns. By 1764, there was 1,150. It was the heartland of the Jewish world. Look, in 1939, there were more Jews living in Warsaw than any other city in the world, apart from New York. And you know, Warsaw had 40 different Jewish newspapers. It had every manifestation of Jewish life. Despite everything that happened under the Czars, which we’ve looked at and under independent Poland, it was still an incredibly vibrant life. What I find very peculiar when I go to Poland is, you know, the Yiddish theatre is still there, but there are no Jews. It’s Yiddish performances in Yiddish for other Poles. So, as my mother would say, “Go figure.” There’s festivals of Jewish culture in Poland. It is a very, very strange place. I’ve had so many different memories and I dunno if my friend Lionel Holter is online because he used to run our tours for us. And we always used to say, “Nothing as it seems in Poland.” I’ve got friends there who study Jewish history, Jewish music, Jewish literature at the Jagiellonian University. They say, “We lost a limb when the Jews…” They say we lost our Jews and of course they didn’t lose the Jews. The Jews were murdered.

But let’s be careful. It was the Nazis. But on the other hand, there was collaboration, although there wasn’t a Polish SS division. And the problem we have today that the right wing, almost fascistic Polish government if you make any comment that in any way hints that Poles did anything against the Jews, you are in real trouble. And of course we know. Jan Gross is Jedwabne. There were many Jedwabnes. Particularly '45 to '48 is a dark, dark time. The Kielce pogrom. Over 500 Holocaust survivors, at least murdered by Polish fascists. So, it’s a very, very complex period of history. But isn’t it odd that they would’ve burnt that statute? And as I said, another oddity, I know that Wendy’s been to the museum as well. Polin is one of the great museums of the world. It’s one of the greatest Jewish museums I’ve ever been to. Before the lockdown, we even took a group there. Betty wants to know Ibrahim’s absolute dates. I know he was travelling 960 to 61.

Q: Might some English Jews have gone to Spain after the expulsion?

A: Spain was relatively prosperous. Yes, I should have mentioned that, Danny. But you’ve got to remember, it’s Christianizing. The north of Spain is Christianizing. By 1492, there’s only one stronghold left. It’s possible that some had gone there. They might have gone down to the south of France and crossed over there. Because remember, that area was quite free. The counts of Toulouse and the people who ruled Albi, they were very, very tolerant of all sorts of heresies in inverted commerce. It’s the land of the Cathars. So, yes, it’s quite probable that some would’ve gone, but I wouldn’t have thought many because it was tightening up. You had the wonderful King James of Aragon who allowed a disputation, which Nachmanides won. Nevertheless, it tightens up. You have the Dominicans there and the fear of the church. So, and of course, over the next 150 years, and then culminating in Ferdinand and Isabella. Malcolm, given this history, what do you make of the theory Ashkenazi Jews were reduced to a population of just a few hundred by thus forming a genetic bottleneck? I have no knowledge of that. I’m sure it was not just down to a few hundred. So, I’m not going to make a comment on anything I know nothing about. I’m really… it’s interesting, but it’s thousands. Come on. The salt mines in…

How do you pronounce it? Yes, it’s the Wieliczka salt mines. That’s where I went to. It’s wonderful. And Anita is saying yes. Yes.

Q: Betty is asking, would Lockton University consider getting Barbara Gimlet, the curator of the Polin Museum, to give a talk on the museum?

A: She is a brilliant speaker who lives in New York. That is certainly a very good idea, Betty. And also there’s an Anthony Polanski who lives in London, and he was the actual intellectual director of the modern stuff. He’s a wonderful historian.

Q: Could you speak to the one sovereign Jewish entity in the south of France?

A: Harriet, if I knew enough, I would. I have got a book on it, but it’s not my period. Khazaria. If anybody knows an expert on Khazaria, please would you let Wendy or myself know?

Oh, I love this from Jonathan. The Jews were important as they collected the taxes for the nobility who were frequently too drunk to function. Yes, and if you really want to be mischievous, who controlled the liquor trade and the inns? The Polin Museum begins with the Jews thinking that they’re here, they could come to rest. Yes, Polin. That is the Hasidic story, isn’t it? Po-lin here we will rest.

And of course, Bernice, that’s why the statute was ripped up by these horrible Polish fascists and they want to stop Polin. They want to destroy it. You know, the irony is there are so few Jews in Poland. You know, it’s fascinating, the resurrection of Eastern European Jewry. I feel quite strongly about this, really. I just think it’s over. When we first visited Poland under communism, there were about 5,000. What has happened is the phenomenon of the shoebox babies. Children given away at birth. People finding out on their parents’ deathbeds that in fact they were saved from the camps and can you imagine you’d lived your life in a Polish town as a Polish Catholic, maybe a grandparent by this time to find out, in fact, you’re a Jew? They had to set up a helpline. And there are Jewish schools in Poland. But I’m not sure. As I said, I used to go to Poland twice a year. We used to run seminars there for Polish teachers. My head’s in a swirl when I think about it.

Q: Barry, why was the Roman Catholic corporation opposed to money being loaned to people?

A: It’s from a Jewish law in Leviticus. It’s actually a Jewish law they took on, Barry.

Now, this is David. My uncle’s family long managed the lands of the Polish aristocracy. The family lived in Lithuania. He decided that this role was not for him. So, he immigrated to America where he married his first cousin. Oh, that’s a lovely story, David.

Q: Is it true that the attire of the Haredi and Shtreimel was the attire of Polish nobility?

A: Yes, of the 17th century? Yes, Donny.

Ile des Juifs? I don’t know Joan. Joan is asking is île des Juifs where the small memorial deportation is? I don’t know the answer to that. You know, of course you have that amazing museum down by the Seine where there’s a wonderful memorial. There could well be. I’d like maybe somebody… I can’t answer that. Maybe someone online can.

Do I believe that Saul Wahl was… Gordon, I don’t know who Saul Wahl is.

Stephen, my mother’s ancestor, Saul Wahl Katzenellenbogen, was king of Poland for one day in 1587. Let me find out about that from a friend who will know. Yes, I know some people with that name. Yeah, because the Poles actually elected kings. The Polish Sejm, the Polish parliament, elected kings. It could be. My family went from Barcelona living there during Rembrandt’s time via Czechoslovakia. Possibly on the phone.

Marian, it’s wonderful if you can trace back that far.

Q: To LU, are you planning a presentation on the Khazars?

A: I’ve read Koestle’s “The Thirteenth Tribe,” and the subject is incredibly fascinating. I will put that to Wendy into our book of things we have to do.

Q: You mentioned that the opposite of rationality is irrationality. This just says what is not. What would be a more specific term for irrationality?

A: Let someone answer that, please.

Q: To your knowledge, has anyone ever worked out the total sum of the Jews when expelled from Freedom Road or confiscated before expulsion? Is this information available?

A: Honestly, I wouldn’t imagine it was that much because they’d been robbed of everything. The king had taken so much from them and he’d stopped them being money lenders, remember. I know the story of who was the man who lent George Washington money and I think his heirs and it was never paid back. And he was pulled out of synagogue and he died penniless in England, I believe. And some Wag worked out that if his family were ever paid back, America would be bankrupt. But I think that’s another story.

Q: Maybe a naive question, but how can I trace the journey of my family from the district of Kiev?

A: You get onto one of the Jewish genealogy sites. We have good people like Arlene Bier, who quite often listen and that’s how you do it. And then the Jewish History Institute has professional genealogies. Thank you. And the Jewish History Institute in Poland. There’s Jewish History Institutes everywhere in Warsaw. She’s talking about the one in Warsaw.

Q: So, when did Jews go to Amsterdam?

A: Rita, we’re going to talk about that next week.

Q: Weren’t three million Poles killed in Auschwitz? Are you talking about non-Jews now?

A: Reva, I don’t… It was the sign above… Before communism fell, the sign above Auschwitz was the three million Poles and a million of other nations who died. But the majority who died in Auschwitz were actually Jews. Of course, Poles did die in Auschwitz. Auschwitz is a huge complex. It’s not just Birkenau. It was a prisoner of War Centre. People were tortured there and the Polish intelligentsia was destroyed. Let’s be careful. Poland had the most terrible history itself. The Polish occupation was the harshest in the whole of the Nazi empire. They killed the intelligentsia and there was a great Polish resistance as well. The Jewish population, the Poles is stated to be about 3,500 plus.

That’s correct. It depends on how you count, as Victoria said. It depends. I remember being with my partner, we went to… ‘Cause you know, there are four communities in Krakow now. There’s the Orthodox, there’s reform, there is Chabad, and there’s one other. And I remember we went to a Chabad minyan and my partner who comes from the world of Hasidic world, he said, minyan. And the guy said no, although there are about 30 men there. There’s a lot of fellow travellers or people who think they’re Jewish or want to be Jewish. It’s a very, very peculiar scene. That’s all I can tell you. But I haven’t been back for five years, four years, so I don’t really want to comment. My daughter’s just been over there. She’s going to write a big piece on memorialization and what’s going on there now. So, I’ll be talking to her this weekend. I’ll see if I can get more information.

This is from Sandy. My husband’s family goes back to 1700 in the Hungary when they came from Germany. But practically all the DNA matches, however distant are Polish. Now, I know why. Very interesting. Thank you. Yes, the connections between Hungarian communities in this area were very fluid. If you look at a map and remember how borders kept on changing? And also don’t forget that from 1526 Battle of Mohacs, much of Hungary was under Muslim control. So, some of them ironically a lot of Jews preferred to stay under the Muslims. Kielce pogrom.

Yes, I know Victoria. 40 Jews were killed there. Yeah, but let me explain. 500 Holocaust survivors were murdered in the first year. That’s the point. That’s the point. And Wieliczka, that’s how you pronounce it. Thank you so much, Victoria.

Wieliczka is the name of the salt mine.

Q: Are Jews welcomed by the Poles since World War II?

A: Who are you talking to, Leanne? If you are talking to a small group of Polish intellectuals, I was with Felix Scharf at the opening of the first Polish Jewish Cultural Festival in Krakow, where the whole of the Polish Intelligentsia was there, including Andre Vida, Mel Walsh, who is the great poet, and it was great pomp and ceremony. I think there’s a whole strand of Polish Intelligentsia who do want the Jews. I think there’s a whole group of ultra Polish nationalists who don’t want the Jews. But on the other hand, there’s quite a whole group of Polish nationalists, wait for this, who are proud of their Jews who created Israel. That’s what I said. It’s complicated. If one visits Krakow, one can taste the anti-Semitism. Look, you can… A friend of mine once said, “Europe is the graveyard of the Jews.” If you go in that frame of mind, you’re going to find it. It’s too deep.

Abigail, there’s an amazing film created by a native of Kielce who exposes the rights to the population and even goes to Israel to meet survivors. Bolton’s Journey. Thank you very much for that, Abigail

And Valerie’s saying, “My husband was in concentration camps "in the .”

Myrna’s telling us there’s a wonderful history of the Jewish Barons of Lithuania around the 1800s. Yeah, of course. You know, by the time you get to the 18, 1900s, there’s a whole class of Jewish entrepreneurs in Eastern Europe.

Monty, the Poles must be happy with museums about Jews because it’s all about dead Jews. Monty, yes, but be careful on one level because remember, the Poles were never the perpetrator. They were not the ones who set it all off. It was the Germans. It was the Germans and actually the Austrians, if you want to look at the SS. A lot of Poles collaborated, but there was no Polish SS division. It’s so difficult.

This is from Rose, the memorabilia, the Poles selling craft. Even that smells of antisemitism and the fact that they refused to acknowledge their culpability in the Shoah. Yes, I do agree with you that the memorabilia of Hasids, particularly as garden gnomes, really does turn my stomach. It is horrible. I totally agree with you. And also the culpability in the Shoah is very, very painful. The author’s Valerie Shapter.

Oh Marilyn, the memorial at the island where Notre Dame is located across the road by the water. Thank you. Île Notre-Dame, same island, opposite end of the . Thank you Marilyn. Oh goodness. I do love this group, as I’ve said before.

Marion. For Wendy and Trudy, the Israeli journalist Ehud Yaari claims to be a descendant from the Khazars. And some years ago he went to the area and produced a documentary series, “Searching for Jewish Remnants.” His English is good. Marion, I think Wendy and I would welcome if you could send us more details. Again, the Saul Wahl story was find out more. A friend of mine who was a colleague at the Claims Conference works at Polin. Interesting to see how many stories about Poles saving Jews are surfacing now. Poles were influenced by the church.

Yes, Poles did save Jews. We can spend… When Holocaust Memorial Day happens in England, the 27th of January, we’re going to honour it on lockdown. I think maybe we should talk about this. Rochelle is saying there’s a memorial on Ilse St-Louis in Notre Dame. Just west of the island says… There’s an entry on Saul Wahl in the Jewish encyclopaedia. I think one of you got to get this all together for us please. I think there’s another lecture that someone else better give coming up.

And Sarah is telling us there is a deportation memorial on the Île de la Cité of which is Île des Juifs. Thank you, Sarah. Lovely to hear from you.

Jewish gen for Jewish genealogy is a starting point. Then look at a local society in your city or a city with Jewish genealogical society. That’s from Sue. Thank you very much.

It was Haym Solomon who funded the revolution. Thank you, Susan. I believe he’s buried in Philadelphia. Thank you, Susan.

Q: Could we have a talk on the Jews in the Austria-Hungarian Empire?

A: Erica, how am I going to tell you this? Wendy and I have been working on your syllabus for January and February, and you’ll never guess where we’re going to. The Habsburg Empire and that will include all those characters. Yes, because what we want to get our teeth in, because if you think about it, with all our lecturers, our core lecturers, we have literature, we have art, we have culture, we have history, we have general history. So, we all were dying to get our teeth really into the Hapsburg Empire. So, yes.

And Pauline is telling us the biggest donation to the Polin Museum came from a Polish millionaire who has no connection to Jews. Yes, you see this is the point. There are good people, there are bad. Yeah. The human condition. Yes, somebody has mentioned Arthur Koestler’s “Thirteenth Tribe,” and I’ve asked you all to find the perfect lecturer on Khazaria. Although most historians do not accept the premise.

I think I better stop there, don’t you? Hello?

• Thank you, Trudy. Thank you Trudy.

• Okay, thank you all and have a good night. And you’ll be what? When’s the next one? I’ve lost time, haven’t I? It’s Tuesday tonight, so goodbye.

• [Judi] So, we have Rabbi Rosen.

• At seven o'clock our time?

• [Judi] Yes.

• Okay, thank you very much, Judi. And thank you for getting all of the slides for me.

• [Judi] Pleasure as always, Trudy. Thank you, everybody.

• Bye.

• [Judi] Bye-Bye.