Julian Barnett
Hidden Jewish Sects of Jerusalem, Part 1

Julian Barnett - Hidden Jewish Sects of Jerusalem, Part 1

- Good evening everybody. Thank you very much for joining us. This is, of course, part one. We’ve had parts one and two of Hidden Jerusalem. Hidden Jerusalem on the 30th of December, Part One. 16th of January, it was Part Two. That was really about the skeleton of Jerusalem, the physical skin and bones of the city. What I’m now going to do is, as I promised at the time, I’m going to plunge us now into the people that populate those skin and bones of Jerusalem. So, what’s going to happen today is, I’m going to do the first of three presentations on some of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects of the city. Then, on the 14th of March, I’m going to be moving over to the Islamic sects, and on a date soon to be set in April, to the Christian sects. So today, it’s the ultra-Orthodox sects of the city. And unlike Hidden Jerusalem parts one and two, where most of the pictures were the physical side and the buildings and the gates, this time you are going to see lots of fascinating faces and the stories behind them. So Judi, very kindly, is going to take us through the pictures. Off we go, Judi, thank you very much indeed. There I am. It’s a picture that you might very well be familiar with. It’s me sitting in my Musrara home. And to quote Baron Harold Samuel in, I think, 1926, “Location, location, location.” Everything is location. I’ve just got a brief question to you, Judi. Can you see that picture clearly or am I in, is there a picture superimposed upon me in that, or is the whole picture clear?

• [Judi] The whole picture is clear. We have you in the, I have you in the corner.

• Wonderful.

• [Judi] And we have, I have this wonderful picture of you on screen.

• Perfect, thank you very much. So, location, location, location. Musrara is a tiny neighbourhood just outside the northern walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. Why did I choose that neighbourhood? Because that neighbourhood was just within the shadow of Me'a She'arim, the ultra-Orthodox Jewish neighbourhood of Jerusalem, yet not within it. That would allow me the freedom to go in and out of Me'a She'arim and also really importantly, allow the local people in the neighbourhood of Me'a She'arim to come to my place. Remember, if you’re in a very closed area like Me'a She'arim, where everybody is really, sort of watching everybody and noting where everybody is, if people were starting to go to strange neighbourhoods away from their neighbourhood, then that would be noticed. But if I’m sitting on the edge in the place between them and the Old City, I could have access to the people of Me'a She'arim, they could have access to me and no eyebrows would be raised. Similarly, by the way, with Muslims living in the area, ‘cause I was right on the border of East and West Jerusalem. As I mention more of that next time, on the 14th of March, where I talk about the Muslims that would frequent my home, as well. On to the next picture, please.

You will start to be familiar with some of the faces here. Here I am dressed in an ultra-Orthodox getup with a strimel, becketshire, white shirt. As you can see, a few years younger, this picture was taken 2005, and I’m with a satmahosset, a pupahosset, a vishnetsahosset, I’m looking again, and another satmahosset. We were about to go out to a Tish, but a non Friday night Tish. I’m going to talk about the world of the Tish a bit later. There I am sitting in the library in my home in Musrara. And onto the next picture. I’ve shown you this before. This gives you a view of those four quarters of the Old City of Jerusalem, the Muslim, the Jewish, the Armenian, and the Christian quarters. And you will recall that the Armenian is a Christian sub quarter and the Muslim quarter is the biggest by far in area and certainly by far in population. Next picture, two satellite pictures coming up, top left hand corner of the satellite picture. No, I’m sorry, top right hand corner of the satellite picture is the closest corner of the Old City of Jerusalem to Me'a She'arim. And if we go over to the next picture, another satellite picture, you will see the top, zooming in a little bit there. You will see the top left-hand corner is the corner of Kakatzion, Zion Square, that leads into that takes you down into Me'a She'arim itself. Next picture please. Before we go to Me'a She'arim, and I keep mentioning Me'a She'arim and the neighbourhood itself, it shouldn’t be forgotten that there are many ultra-Orthodox Jews who actually don’t necessarily live in Me'a She'arim, but who in fact live in the Old City of Jerusalem and in some of the environs outside. This man is walking straight through the Muslim Quarter.

His life is based and his area is within the Muslim Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. And he goes from that to the grave of Shimon HaTzadik, a very, very ancient grave attributed to Shimon HaTzadik, who was one of the high priests during the time of the reign of Alexander the Great actually. And Shimon HaTzadik’s grave is venerated by this particular sect called the return of the builders, who have come to live in the old, in the Muslim Quarter of the Old City. You will notice he’s walking through that street with his prayer shawl, his talis, over his head so that he’s not put off by forbidden sights or smells or forbidden thoughts. There he is walking straight through, the clearest direct line from the Tomb of Shimon HaTzadik on the outside the northern walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. And onto the next picture, you’ll see in fact a wonderful view there of two of the members of Shimon HaTzadik right slap bang in the middle of the Muslim Quarter of the Old City with, of course, Muslim girls and a little boy there right behind them. Worlds apart, inches from each other, but just look, they might as well be worlds apart, such as Jerusalem. Next, please. I particularly love this picture because if you look closely on the left hand side, you can see the cuboid structure of the carba, the holiest sight in Islam. Mecca, Medina, Jerusalem, Al Kutz being the third holiest city in Islam. And I’ll be spending quite a bit of time talking about the place of Jerusalem in Islam on the 14th of March. But for today, what I loved about this picture is that here you have this ultra-Orthodox man, walking up the steps into his quarter within a quarter. Yet he’s walking past a symbol of the carba or a drawing of the carba on the wall, the holiest sight of Islam, which would normally be a sign that the family living in the house, Muslim family living in that house, have been on Hajj on pilgrimage to Mecca.

And next please. Now we’re going outside of the Old City. I did take you on a circumnavigation of the walls of the Old City last time and I mentioned about the seven working gates of the Old City of Jerusalem. There are many other gates, sealed gates, you remember the Hulda Gate, the Golden Gate and so on. But I’m just going to show you two of the gates you saw last time because they’re the gates that ultra-Orthodox people living in Me'a She'arim most frequently use because they’re the gates closest to Me'a She'arim on the northern wall. There’s the first new gate, it’s one of the gates into the Christian Quarter. Sha Hadash, it’s the newest of the gates of the Old City. Punched through the walls of the Old City in the late 19th century and opposite Notre Dame Convent, an organisation just opposite that. And on the next picture, you will see the grandest of all the gates, Damascus Gate. And you remember I said that every gate in Jerusalem has at least three names, Damascus Gate in English, Sha Shem in Hebrew, Babalamoot, the gate of the column, the ancient Arabic name which mirrors the column where the Abrahajan, a statue of the Abrahajan stood above the gate. And that is the closest gate to Me'a She'arim. Hasidim go pretty much, they don’t really take into account the risks that might be involved in going through the Muslim Quarter. There was a constant stream of Hasidim going from Me'a She'arim, the quickest direct route to the Old City and to the Jewish holy society in the Old City, particularly the coastal Hamrami, the cartel, in modern Hebrew, the in Hasidic parlance, and the Western Wall to many people outside.

And the next picture please. And there is circled the main sub quarters of Me'a She'arim. There’s Me'a She'arim itself, which is actually a very tiny walled quarter within a quarter. More on that very shortly. There’s also Gu'ula, which is a more modern quarter of Me'a She'arim, built up since the 1920s. There’s also , which again is late 19th, early 20th century. But when people talk about Me'a She'arim, they really are referring to greater Me'a She'arim, all of these neighbourhoods cast into one, into which are thrown into a pot of literally hundreds of ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects. When I was in Jerusalem 2002 or 2002 to 2006, I had an occasional column in the Jerusalem Report. And in that column I would write about the Jewish sects that I’d come across. And I was able to count in that time 116 Christian sects within the Old City of Jerusalem, near 100 Muslim sects, and 136 Jewish sects within the city of Jerusalem. There are, in fact, more than that, it’s going up all the time. So we’re talking about a huge concentration of ultra-Orthodox Jewish sects living within Me'a She'arim that might appear just oh black coated, hair sidelocked men in Me'a She'arim and they might all look the same. But they are very, very different and there are great subtleties to the different sects within Me'a She'arim itself. And the next please. There is a map of Me'a She'arim itself. I mentioned So that shows a map of the main streets, the it passes through and almost all of the street names are named after Rabbinon or the books of rabbis or the achievements of great rabbis through the ages. And the next picture.

The famous sign showing Me'a She'arim itself, meaning 100 gates. But it’s a play on the words of a line from the Torah, which was said in the synagogues on that very week when Me'a She'arim was founded in the 1890s. Me'a She'arim means 100 gates literally, but it’s a play on the words meaning a hundredfold. That if you follow, if you follow in my commandments and in my ways, you will multiply a hundredfold as a blessing from God that you have followed in my path. And you can see, interestingly by the way, there is the street sign Me'a She'arim in Hebrew and in Arabic and translation into English. Next picture please. We move on to something that if you’ve been to Jerusalem, you would’ve seen, these famous signs all over the place. Now I’m going to talk about a lot of the values and the ways of living of the people of Me'a She'arim. And I’m not going to make a judgment here whether I approve or disapprove, what I think of them or not, what their politics is or not. Their politics is quite widely known. That judgement maybe is for you to make in your own time and at your own leisure. I’m just going to point out my experience of these groups since 1981, which was the first time as a 16-year-old boy I visited Me'a She'arim and I was totally entranced.

And I kept going back and back and back summer after summer, winter after winter, until finally I got to live in Jerusalem in 2002 and then I lived right on the border of Me'a She'arim. And then from then onwards, I was going in and dipping in and even more than dipping in, living in and out all the time. So I’m not going to make judgements here, I’m just going to give you the facts or some of the facts in the limited time we have about where they stand on politics, where they stand on life, where they stand on religious practise and you can come to your own conclusions. And these signs pretty much on every external wall of Me'a She'arim are familiar to those that have been. Closed blouse, long sleeves, long skirts, no trousers, no tight fitting clothes for the women. By the way, it’s often forgotten that there are definite expectations of the way men should dress. Certainly shouldn’t wear shorts, certainly shouldn’t wear shirts that are unbuttoned down to hairy chests. If I was going into Me'a She'arim, I would wear a full jacket and a long-sleeved shirt. I certainly wouldn’t wear a short-sleeved shirt if I went in. And it serves you well if you dress well because the more dressed you are, the better dressed you are, according to their expectations, the more open you might find people who are willing to speak to you if what you want to do is try to start to learn about what propels these people in their communities. Next picture please.

Look at this one, Jews are not Zionists it proclaims, in Hebrew, in Arabic, and in English, of course. It is a strong belief in many, not all people in Me'a She'arim, that we, the residents of Me'a She'arim were here way before the Jewish state. Me'a She'arim was established way back in the 1830s and '40s, way before there was a state of Israel and indeed the first ultra-Orthodox groups of Jews moving to Israel, known as the Yishaeel, were coming from very early on. So they consider themselves to be living in the Holy Land rather than the State of Israel. Many of them fervently believe that they will be there after the state has long gone and they will consider living there. More than that a bit later. But there’s a piece of graffiti that will follow in the next picture please. And it’s quite a shocking piece. There is somebody walking past, in quite a distinctive robe, which I’ll return to later. Not your normal black coat, I’ll return to him later. But look at that graffiti, Palestine to the Araphim. So a really amazing piece of graffiti, Palestine to the Arabs. Notice not the use of the word Israel. Next picture please. These are remarkable. This is often the way that a huge amount of information is conveyed in Me'a She'arim. In the pre-internet age, it was much easier to control what was discussed in Me'a She'arim. But now it’s getting much more difficult. This is the great challenge of the rabbis to control the flow of information that’s coming into the communities, the families, and the minds of their followers. But in times gone past, really the only access that people in Me'a She'arim had to what was going on in the outside world was this, called pasquillin, the notices on the walls.

The walls are absolutely plastered with the local gossip, the culture wars of what was going on, messages, admonitions from the Rabbinic councils, births, marriages, deaths, harems, excommunications, warnings about unhealthy and unwanted influences that are coming in, people that the Rabbini might wish to warn the their flocks against. This was the way the people were informed. And it still is very, very highly used all over Me'a She'arim. But of course with the encroachment of the modern world and the internet and so on, the influence of the pasquillin is weakening as the years progress. Let me add one little thought on that. Although people talk about the people of Me'a She'arim living in the mediaeval period and not wanting to embrace modernity, it’s not really accurate. Because when it suits the Hasidim of Me'a She'arim, they are absolutely okay with the ways of the world. They will use mobile phones, they will use bank transfers, they will use business, they will use all types of network to operate in the modern world. They will be able to set up businesses, close down businesses, shift finances across the world, where my word is my bond rather than sign contracts at lightning speed. In many ways the Hasidim are very, very modern in a strange sort of way. In many other ways, they’re very unmodern, very anti-modern. What I’m trying to say is I suppose is they are taking the world on on their terms. So they will reject what they consider to be things that are against what they stand for and completely embrace modernity and things when it suits them or when it is enhancing, they feel is enhancing their values.

Next picture please. Kikashabbat, the central crossroads of Gu'ula, Baesiswa and Me'a She'arim, bustling and busy at all times. Next picture please. And there is one of those entrances. I mentioned to you that Me'a She'arim is a walled city within walled city. To Me'a She'arim is a tiny neighbourhood. That is the original walls of the original Me'a She'arim, it’s very tiny. Note the letter box from the reign of George the Fifth from the British mandate period. And it’s a very old part of Me'a She'arim. Quite, quite poverty stricken in parts, very intimate. But around that has grown up Gu'ula and Baesewa and other neighbourhoods, Kurat Bells and many others. Next picture please. Now we’re looking at the central point of the male Hasidic world rather than the female Hasidic world, the Tish. Tish literally means table and the Tish is the great gathering of Hasidim that occurs most Friday nights in most Hasidic sects. It also occurs at other times. This is the poem Tish in Bells. Bells being one of the largest Hasidic groups in Israel. Not the largest, the largest Hasidic group in Israel is Guar. But you can see all these males here, I don’t know, 4000 males, maybe more, in the Tish room. And if you look above that sea of black are huge curtains. That is the mahiksa. So all the ladies are above that. What is the purpose of the Tish? The purpose of a Tish is partly community get together to bring unity to the community. Partly it’s to get a blessing from the Rabbi. People believe that food given by the Rabbi to his Hasidim is food that is blessed, so it’s spiritual enhancement. Partly it’s because right up there in those behind those mahiksas are going to be many, many perspective brides standing next to the shaham.

And the shaham will be pointing out various unmarried males and the brides will be there with little binoculars to look in and to be pointed to a boy that’s eligible. And that’s where the girl will get the first glance of the boy that the shaham might be a good match. That is one way that those original sites are made. So a Tish is used for many things, cementing a community, receiving blessings, but also for the very practical thing of first steps to finding a groom. It’s multifaceted and very subtle sometimes, but also in a very brazen way of the Hasidic community keeping things going. Let’s move in a bit closer to the Tish. This is a lovely picture, next picture please, of from the far end. Look at these children there piling in there at the bottom, the men waiting for the Rabbi to come through. This isn’t Bells, this is the Harleva Tish, a much smaller Hasidic group, as you can see. And the next picture please. This is a closeup of the Bells Purim Tish. Of course, Purim is soon to come, I think it’s the 16th, 17th of March. That huge plate in front of the Bells of Rabbi . Yes he is, he’s the fifth Bells of Rabbi. That is a massive plate of homentash the rabbi will soon cut up into thousands of pieces or in fact he will give a blocker and then his beadles will cut up all of those pieces into thousands of pieces that will be passed around to the Hasidim.

So very, very important aspect of what’s going on in the Tish itself. And the next picture, please. Look at the strimels there in this Tish. So strimel is part of the, I suppose, the most colourful, well-known uniform outfit of the Hasidic world. Worn at weddings, worn on Sabbath and Yontifs and Holamoida festivals. Worn at non-Sabbath and non festival times where photographs like this that I took can be taken, otherwise, I could never have taken the photograph. Again, this was Purim time. And the next picture please. another Hasidic rabbi with fruits. Each piece, each grape will be passed a specific Hasidim in a little cup and passed around. Again, this was a Purim Tish. And the next picture. And another rabbi there about to cut bread. Some of these hallahs are absolutely vast. In fact, the very first picture I ever saw of a Tish was as a 13-year-old boy in National Geographic magazine, all the way back in 1977, '78, where National Geographic did an enormous feature on the Hasidic community of Satma in Williamsburg. There were very few Satma Hasidims in Israel because Satma is strongly anti-Zionist. The biggest Satma community is Williamsburg in Brooklyn, New York. And there was a picture, not this one, of the most enormous hallah you would ever wish to see. I would suspect that that is probably online now. The hallah was something like 17 feet long and the hallah would be cut up and distributed amongst the thousands of Hasidim at the Tish. But this is a nice closeup photo of another smaller Hasidic rabbi or another rabbi of a smaller Hasidic group within Me'a She'arim. Next picture please.

This is the and he is a breakaway group from and his Tish runs every Friday night from around about 10:00 PM to around about pre-dawn, four or 5:00 in the morning. He’s so exhausted at the end of a Tish that he literally faints from exhaustion and is carried back in a stretcher to his nearby home. This is a man who is very, very devoted to his flock and will dance and sing and lead 'til he is utterly exhausted. Next picture please. The This is the eighth one of the oldest of Hasidic groups. don’t wear strimels. They wear a higher hat for the schopodok. There he is. Guar is the largest, well, some Hasidic groups dispute this. They’re probably the largest Hasidic group in the world, certainly the largest Hasidic group in Israel. And they have an enormous shul synagogue on the edge of Me'a She'arim near Kurat Bells. And once a month, the Guar rabbi comes to Jerusalem for Shabbat Tish. And there he is pre-Shabbat there. The biggest Tish of the Guari is which is the , the anniversary of the death of the previous Guar rabbi and that is something to behold. If ever you were in Jerusalem for , go to the Guar Tish. You’ll get a warm welcome. There you will see between 10 and 13,000 male Hasidim at the Tish of the Guar rabbi. There he is. Next picture please. The Todes Aaron rabbi, . I first went to Todes Aaron in 1981, the summer of '81 and that is what entranced me.

The Todes Aaron Hasidim are a particularly closed and I use the word extreme, not necessarily judgmentally but descriptively. They are absolutely ultra ultra in their understanding and their definitions and their demands on various laws and observances. So whatever the law says, they will go to the nth degree to add Humira upon Humira, to add stricture upon stricture to make sure they are keeping to the letter and they would maintain also the spirit of the law. is a remarkable man because he’s multilingual, he reads many, many types of books that aren’t necessarily permitted to his followers and he’s a very fascinating character. If we can move on to the next picture. It begins to show the intensity of some of these Hasidim. Look at this man examining a lull of a palm branch in preparation for the festival of Tabernacles or Sakat. He’s taking a magnifying glass to it to check that every single aspect of that palm leaf is as it should be. They will sometimes spend hours in the markets looking at these things. If you go onto the next picture, you will see what I mean. See we have a boy with a palm branch and on the next picture, people looking very closely at the escarole to make sure it is perfect. Of course the nearest to perfection it is, the more expensive it is. So there are escarole given for wealthy, for less wealthy, for those that aren’t so wealthy, for those that are poor. So there’s an escarole for every pocket and it’s a wonderful thing to walk around the pre-Sakats markets in Me'a She'arim because you will then see it’s almost like a microcosm of all those values of Me'a She'arim. The utter attention too, some would say obsessive, attention to detail.

The absolute demand that people make of themselves that they observe the miksas and the commandments to the nth degree to the best of their ability, it is an amazing thing to behold. Now some would say, well this is a complete waste of time. It’s a ridiculous thing to behold. You could argue it’s all those things. It is an amazing thing anthropologically to see people peacefully, quietly, in dignity, putting in a massive effort into the tiniest of details to get things right. To the next picture please. Here we have a group of Hasidim at the Western Wall. And what interested me about this picture was that not all Hasidim go to the Western Wall. It is often overlooked that a lot of Hasidim, since 1967, refuse to go to the Western Wall because since 1967, since the Israelis took the Old City of Jerusalem, since the Western Wall ceased to be under Jordanian control, a lot of Hasidim will not go to the Western Wall because they refuse to go to a Jewish holy site that is controlled by the Zionist state. So ironically, there are some Hasidim that I knew when I was in Jerusalem in 2002 onwards and before, who remembers a distant dim memory going to the cartel, the Western Wall pre '67. How they got there was a remarkable and interesting story, yet they have never been since then. They absolutely steadfastly refuse to go, yet they only live just outside in Me'a She'arim. I know some Hasidim who have grown up, who are my age and younger, they’re in their 30s and their 40s who have never been to the Western Wall and have never stepped foot into the Jewish holy sites of the Old City because since '67 it’s controlled by the Zionist entity.

Remarkable. That is, again, an extreme stance. Most Hasidim will go. And here’s a lovely nighttime picture of Hasidim there at the Western Wall. Next picture please. A funeral in Me'a She'arim. One of the things about Me'a She'arim is because it is such a community base because it has such a closeness to it, everything happens in Me'a She'arim. It’s almost like a mediaeval village in some ways. There are no secrets. Everything happens, everything is out in the open. Everybody sees everything everyone is doing there. Here is a funeral. You can see, in the bottom row there, a body wrapped in a talis ready for funeral and you can see Hasidim there ready to take that body to funeral. The actual funeral there was of a major personality in the Todes Aaron Hasidim. I had a phone call from the Todes Aaron. They said a really important person has died. I knew the person that had died. Come and watch the funeral. He allowed me to go up to the shul and take the picture downwards there. And then they took that body up for burial on the Mount of Olives. Next picture please. Often when people most hear about it’s when Me'a She'arim clashes with the outside world. And I have to say, although people in the outside world are very much interested or absorbed or appalled by the stance that many of the Hasidim in Me'a She'arim have on the secular world and on the state of Israel, I can honestly say that I have never had an unsolicited conversation with any person, any resident of Me'a She'arim about Zionism, about politics, about the state of Israel.

It just doesn’t exercise them particularly because most people in Me'a She'arim have big families, they have to worry about how to feed them, and they’re just not that involved and interested in politics. People from the outside world are interested in the politics of those in Me'a She'arim and are quite exercised about it. Most of the activity of the residents of Me'a She'arim tends to be hotheaded, often bored, often can be quite silly Hasidim of Me'a She'arim the hotheads of youth who get involved in demonstrations and so on and get exercise over many things that happen. You might recall back in the '80s and the '90s, the big issue was Egghead buses running on Shabbat, Air Lal flying on Shabbat. Those issues have now passed partly because Egghead doesn’t run on Shabbat, although that’s not entirely true, and Air Lal doesn’t fly on Shabbat. The big issues that really, really exercise people in Me'a She'arim was gay parades that happened in Jerusalem after the turn of the millennium. So here is one example, this is gay pride parade in Jerusalem. Next picture please. And there’s another example, two soldiers. And the next picture please. And the reaction to it, don’t sodomise Jerusalem. This is a demonstration what’s going on now. There was a big debate in Me'a She'arim. There were some rabbis that said do not demonstrate against the gay pride march because by demonstrating against the gay pride march, that actually advertises the gay pride march to people that live in Me'a She'arim.

There might be people in Me'a She'arim that will know nothing about homosexuality. But by drawing attention to it through demonstrations, they will start to ask, well what’s this? What is homosexuality and so on. The Guar rabbi, the rabbi, the rabbi all campaigned against any forms of demonstrations against the gay pride marches. They also said, by the way, that it was a It was bringing their communities into disrepute by violently demonstrating against aspects of the secular state, which is something you seldom hear. You normally hear in the news Hasidim are extreme and they demonstrate against the state and they go out and they fire bomb things and so on. Well some do, but the majority don’t. And in fact some rabbis absolutely exhort their followers to not do that. Next picture please. Here was an example of demonstrations there being carried off by the police. And the next picture please. These are the sort of pictures that get into the media. And look at this man here dressed in sackcloth at the thought of a gay pride demonstration going through Jerusalem. Next picture please. A further enhancement of that people again in sackcloth saying Psalms to heal him about what was going on a few hundred yards in the gay pride march through Jerusalem.

The gay pride march was the flashpoint of a conflict between Me'a She'arim and the outside world. And the next picture please. And the next picture please. Fires, burning of plastic bins and so on. And if we now move on to the next one, you can see it. And the next one. You can see Hasidim being carried off by the police. And of course then that the Hasidim then saying that the police are behaving like Nazis. And that this is Jews treating us. We are the saviours of the state through leading a Torah true life. And yet the secular Jewish state is persecuting us as if it was all Germany all over again. Carry on again please. But there was another side to Me'a She'arim and that is this, most people in Me'a She'arim are not politically involved. They just lead their lives quite quietly, quite modestly in a dignified fashion in the way they see fit. This is a sub quarter within Me'a She'arim called the Hungarian houses, the Hungarian Quarter. Unlike a lot of Me'a She'arim, which is not renowned for having immaculately clean streets, streets are immaculate because they refuse to let the street cleaners of the aria of the municipality of Jerusalem into their quarter because they don’t want the Zionist street cleaners and Zionist services cleaning their part. They want to clean their streets themselves. They scrub their streets themselves, they bleach their streets. This is the highest density population in Jerusalem. The Hungarian Hasidic families are the largest families within the Me'a She'arim. Average birth rate of between nine and 14 children a family.

Tiny houses living in cooperative fashion. Ironically, they are the closest, how can I put it, the lifestyle of the members of who are strongly anti-Zionist, live in a closer way to the original kibbutz movements of the early Zionist movement than any other people in the state of Israel today. How’s that for a life? They live and they share almost everything. They live and they share their children with each other. When male and female children become old enough, when the males and the females are coming up to puberty, they will be separated and the girls will go and live with other girls in families next door and the boys will live with other boys in the families. They share all types of facilities. Look at the shared washing lights. Now has a number of triangular squares, so to speak, and all life revolves around them. If you just look near the bottom, there’s a washing line, there’s a well where water is used, common water is used, and you can see a shul, a synagogue right in the middle of the square. Next picture please. There you can see a closeup of those washing lines. And look at the immaculate nature of the stones, scrubbed clean by the local residents. Next picture please. Festival of Tabernacles. Look at the density of population there, the sookers there outside each home. Huge families in tiny homes. You can get an idea of that density of population. Next picture. And again another picture of that. And the next one. Look at the washing lines. Not a single female item on the washing line because that is immodest. Female items are dried inside.

Men’s shirts and men’s white stockings, top left side of the washing line are lots of men’s stockings being hung because men wear white stockings. Hungarian Hasidim wear white stockings. Tell you a little bit about that later. Look at the girl there with a single ponytail, top left. Single ponytail denotes ready for marriage. Everything is codes there. Double ponytail means not available for marriage yet. And the next picture. Look again at the density of population. These buildings are built in the 1890s. Just look at that. I’m just looking at there two doors on the top level and one, two, three, four, five doors on the middle level, so you’ve got eight. And you’ve got about 10 flats in view there. Each family, let’s say 12 members, so 120 people, 120 souls living in just that snapshot of . It’s remarkable. Look again at how clean it all is. Busy packed but clean. Not one bit of litter and 120 people living there. Next picture. Inside one of those houses, you’ll notice that the residents did not allow me to film any of their family members. They didn’t want to be photographed. But look how small and clean and modest the family residence is. And the next. Here we have a head of the family, the great-grandfather, with his grandchildren, oh Purim. This great-grandfather has, wait for it, 200 thereabouts, 250 grandchildren, children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. And on every Shabbas afternoon, the great-grandfather and his wife would see every single one of their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren who would visit them in shifts in order to see them every Shabbath afternoon. This is a poem, Tish, for his great-grandchildren, all sitting around with crowns on their heads. So long was that table.

The table was quadruple the length, that the one of the sons had to actually use a microphone so all the children could hear it. There he is standing. Next picture please. And there we have three of the children. Look at the white stockings that the boys wear with big knitted key parts, big knitted kappels. The knitted kappels of the not the small knitted kappels of the Zionists. These are big knitted cappels. Not black cappels but knitted, white cappels. And as you can see there, I suppose knickerbockers that they’re wearing, we call them in the West, with white stockings there. Next picture. And the girls, single ponytails, not available for marriage. Any female picture are going to be quite grainy because no female would pose for a picture or even wait for a picture. So I would have to take the pictures as they pass very quickly. And the next picture. Some of the ladies there with their children. And you’ll see that the ladies have, often they don’t wear wigs, they just wear scarfs, shaved heads and scarfs or shaved heads with a wig and a scarf on top of the wig. Next picture. Another picture of some of those ladies there. Black tickles, black head scarfs there and shaved heads. No wigs worn by some of those Hungarian Hasidim, they wouldn’t wear wigs at all. And the next picture. There are the men. And look at the men there. They’re wearing the kaftan ushami, the golden ushami coats. When the Hungarian Hasidim came to live in Jerusalem in the 1840s onwards right through to the 1930s, particularly the group of Todes Aaron which, as I mentioned to you, was a great fascination to me over the last, my goodness, 40 years. That’s as long as I’ve been going in and out of Todes Aaron. The first Todes Aaron I remember, the Baron Roth, thought that right, we’ve left Hungary en masse. We’re now in the land of Israel.

We’re going to discard the black coats of Middle Europe and Eastern Europe and we are now going to wear golden caftans made from Ottoman silken and damaskan fabric. And they wear these quite beautiful, quite exotic peacock like golden coats. Their white belts have 248 bands on them, representing the 248 positive commands in the Torah. They’re made out of 26 pieces of fabrics yet representing , the 26 letters, the numerical value of the name of God. They have various other little pieces and shapes within the garment that is a reference to the 10 commandments, to the wearing of the phylacteries, that’s a fill-in that men wear every morning. So this is a garment of holiness so every aspect of what they’re wearing is symbolic. And look at the how the women dress. Immaculate, black, strings of pearls, black head scarf, black earrings, or black clothes. It’s a fine sight, in my opinion, seeing a man and a woman of the Todes Aaron Hasidim walking down the street. They’re very, very striking. Next picture please. And there are two of the unmarried men. The unmarried men wear black stockings. The married men wear white stockings. There you can see the belt with 248 lines on it, big white silk belt. And then the golden kaftan usami, the Jerusalem kaftan. And the boys are there wearing strimels. Normally strimels with most Hasidim are worn just after marriage. In Todes Aaron, they’re worn from bar mitzvah onwards. Next picture. There is a Tish of Todes Aaron Hasidim all in gold on Purim, wearing golden fesses Ottoman style. And the next picture is a closeup of red fesses on a rather drunken Purim Tish at home around the table.

I had to negotiate long and hard to be able to take these photos. Next picture please. And a closeup, just look at that. The Todes Aaron Hasidim are a relatively small gene pool. So about 80% of the males are redheaded and blonde. They’re very un-Jewish looking in many ways. Very striking gene pool that the Todes Aaron Hasidim have amongst them. And the next picture. This is Hashanah Raba and it’s just such a magical, magical scene with the lulus walking around the rim of the centrality of the synagogue, a mass of gold and white. And the next picture. And again, those golden coats with one of the Jerusalem rabbis. This is the Todes Aaron rabbi there. And the next picture please. There we have . Atore Carter. I did write a column on Atore Carter. I’m happy to send it to people if people are interested. Where they are, why they believe what they believe, and so on. With Yasser Arafat. These two men are both dead now. Yasser Arafat and Moisha Hirsch. Moisha Hirsch died, I think 2006, 2007. Quite a shocking picture in many ways. Moisha Hirsch considered himself the minister for Jewish Affairs in any future Palestinian state, post Jewish state of Israel. Next picture please. And George Galloway in London with some of the of London with their Palestinian scarfs and the kafir sort of design scarfs. At any pro-Palestinian demonstration in London, you will have Atore Carter, who will walk there near the front. They will sometimes walk all the way from N16 on a Saturday afternoon to become part of those marches. Pretty shocking to many people. But they are part of that scene and they consider themselves to be an absolutely crucial Jewish presence. And again, I’ve written a little bit about where their stance comes from and I’m happy to send that article if people will be interested.

And the next picture, please. Trafalgar Square underneath an Edward Lanzer Lan. Some of my future lectures will be on some of the towns of the world, Rome, Istanbul, Cairo, London. And I will be giving a talk Trafalgar Square, a future talk. So I’ll be returning to Edward Lanzer, whose bronze lans is there. But here we see Atore Carter standing outside underneath the bronze lan with a flag of Lebanon, I think, with a flag of Palestine. Stop starving the Palestinians. Just look at these figures that they’re putting there. A pretty shocking thing for many Jews to see. And of course the many, many Arabs make tremendous propaganda of these sites of Jews standing here in demonstrations against the state of Israel. Next picture, please. Outside University of London, again, the same sort of idea just around the back of the British Museum. And the next picture. some of those demonstrations have told us Aaron Hasidim again, ant-Israel demonstrations. And then the final few pictures coming up. If we go to the next picture, you will see a flag burning on Yom hat Smartz, I’ve mentioned to you a few times in Jerusalem, nothing is ever as it seems. Look at the face of the person on the left. There he is burning a flag of Israel on Yom hat Schmore in You can see him on the left there in his golden robe and his striemel, long pairs. Look at his face and now go to the next picture. And here he is again on the left with me in my home, presenting me with a, this picture I’ve shown before actually, of the dome of the rock alarm clock. It was a few days before I left Jerusalem, in 2006.

So one would think, oh these are very close people and they don’t have any relations with the outside. He’s actually quite a successful businessman. He’s come on a long way. He is an IT genius, there lies a long story. But there he was presenting with me with an alarm clock in the shape of the dome of the rock. There goes that old Jerusalem thing of that ability to compartmentalise. You might recall the sister of Sister Salome suffering from the stigmata wounds. And then the next picture I had with her was with her drinking a gin and tonic at a reception at the British Embassy or the British Consulate. That is a very Jerusalem thing, the ability to compartmentalise. There is a picture again of him standing in, was by then a very bare home. All my furniture had been removed, everything was off the walls and they were standing with me there just a couple of days before I finally left Jerusalem. And on to the final picture. I got this because it’s just so wonderful. I said to you that many of the Hasidim are very, very worldly. Well they are. Much more worldly than you might think. But many Hasidim are very unworldly. So unworldly that here on poem is a man with his wife and his one, two, three, four, five, six, eight, nine children. Just look at the difference in age between all of them, walking past pasquillin on the walls. But what struck me is this family was so unaware that they didn’t even realise that on poem they were actually, they were dressed up, yes, but they were wearing the robes of Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas. If he’d known that, aye yay yay, there would’ve been a problem for that family. But so unaware that they just thought it was a well, a nice picture of these sort of red robes.

But they are indeed wearing the robes of St. Nicholas on Purim. Well, I’ve spoken enough for now. I’m happy to take questions as always. No taboos when it comes to questions, ask away. I’ll happily take whatever you’d like to ask. And of course, if there’s questions that you think about and that I haven’t had time to answer or that you think about afterwards, of course just contact Judi. She can pass on those questions to me and I’ll happily answer them in due course. Thank you all very much again. There will be more on the Muslims of Jerusalem, the Christians of Jerusalem, at a later date, as I mentioned, and then more beyond that. Thank you. I’m going to go to the chat. And I can already see there’s quite a lot of questions. Here we go.

Q&A and Comments:

Ah, I’ve read that a little bit late. It says, hello, slow down a bit. I’ll bear that in mind for next time. There was a lot to get through.

Q: Tiza, what do I mean by sect?

A: I mean, I suppose a subsection within the group. So if I understand your question correctly, within Me'a She'arim itself, I mean Me'a She'arim is mainly, but not entirely, but mainly Hasidic. Although there are some other non-Hasidic Jews in Me'a She'arim as well. There are those , there are Sephardi, there are some Yekas and Litvish but in the main . So by the sects, I was referring to those different Hasidic groups within Me'a She'arim. Bells, Todes Aaron, Todes Aaron , a small Lubovich presence in the Me'a She'arim but it is very small. Satma, very small. Pupa, slightly larger. and so on. That’s what I mean by the sects.

Q: What are some of the differences between the 100 sects of Hasidic Jews in Jerusalem?

A: Well, I hope I’ve answered that question in the presentation I’ve given. If I haven’t, then come back to me on that. But the differences are political. The differences are also the way they dress. The differences are what sort of things they stress and what they don’t stress. The differences could also be their takes on the state of Israel. I would say there are three main takes on the state of Israel. Take number one, we are entirely against the modern state of Israel. We do not recognise the state. It is a Zionist entity, which is a desecration of the holy land of Israel. Second take, we embrace the state of Israel. We will work with the state of Israel. A good example of that would be, I suppose, the Carlin Ash. Third take on Israel, we actually have now come to recognise that the state of Israel is here to stay. And we have dropped Yiddish as our primary language and we embrace modern Hebrew. We will send units of soldiers to the Israeli Army. We will involve ourselves in all aspects of the politics of the States. Good example of that, the Guar Hasidim. And things are changing inertia, again, because the outward appearance of Hasidim seems to be unchanging. People think that that means things are not changing. They are, things are changing, but it is slow. It’s tectonic but things are changing.

Q: Next question, had you in the early 2000s become ultra-Orthodox and then left that affiliation?

A: I believe you said you once lived in and out. Thank you for this programme. No, I was not ultra-Orthodox. I had a great interest in ultra Orthodox years ago. And I was religious way back, age 16, 17, and 18. I was fascinated with both Satma and Lubovich, who are very, very different, of course. But in my years within Me'a She'arim, my years within Jerusalem, I was not Orthodox but my, I was able to get involved in Orthodox groups and because since 1981 I’ve been going in and out, I was able to build a very, very large network of contacts within Me'a She'arim, from the rabbis downwards, which would enable me to meet people. Once you are in touch with a rabbi, then you are in touch with everybody in the group. If the rabbi almost sanctions contact with you, sanctions meaning passes contact with you, not meaning you prohibit, then that opens every door that’s possible. Without sounding rude, the next question.

Q: How do you think the Me'a She'arim people feel about meeting you from another world?

A: - It depends who they are. The people of Me'a She'arim are human beings. There was a wonderful, wonderful series on Netflix. For those who haven’t seen it, it is called Schtesel. And the great thing about Schtesel, I would say, is that the thing that Schtesel has done is that it has shown the people that watch it, that these people in Me'a She'arim are not machines. They are humans with the human frailties and the doubts and the misconduct. And there are saints and there are sinners and there is humour and there is a lack of humour. And there is extremes and there is moderation. They are are humans like all of us. And in a way, it depends. There are some people in Me'a She'arim that would never speak to me. There are others that would embrace me and speak to me.

Q: Isn’t internet forbidden in Me'a She'arim?

A: Yes, but that doesn’t mean everybody keeps to that rule, if you get me. It is forbidden. Well, yes, it is completely frowned upon and forbidden, but it’s there, believe me.

Q: Did you say that Me'a She'arim will be there when the state is gone?

A: Well, the residents of Me'a She'arim would wish it to be that way. Many of the residents would say that we were there before the state and we will be there after the state. Whether that’s wishful thinking, whether that’s complete naivety, again, that’s for you to make the judgement on that. Interesting that they may be anti Zionist, but they write in Hebrew. Indeed. But of course they would of course say, well the Zionist stole Hebrew. Hebrew was there thousands of years before the Zionists hijacked the language. I think the point is that some of the Hasidim might think that. Agreed. Next question. If anyone thinks any Jews Orthodox will be left in the region now called Israel, once the state of Israel is destroyed, all I can say is lots of luck. There you go, lots of opinions here.

Q: What does the meaning of the strimel and its exuberance?

A: I’ve seen various explanations to the word strimel. I’ll come to that a little later, if I have time. I do like that word exuberance for the strimel.

Q: Is the strimel made from real fur and are they still being manufactured?

A: - Yes, I know three manufacturers of strimels and they are, they are made from real fur. But there is a debate now going on whether they should be made from real fur. But as I mentioned to you, these things move at a tectonic rate. But they are made from sable or from fox. It depends how much money you’ve got to spend. But if you have $20,000, you’ll get a top notch strimel.

Q: How did you manage to take these photos? How did the community receive you? Did you have to pretend you were part of a sect?

A: I took the photos most of the time with permission, most of the time, in fact, almost all of the time.

Q: How did the community receive you?

A: Wonderfully. Always, wonderfully. I have to tell you, I had nothing but open arms and nothing but great, great grace and generosity shown to me personally. The same in the Islamic communities and the same in the Christian communities, I should add. More on those later.

Q: Did you have to pretend you were part of a sect?

A: No. What took people apart, what took people aback in those sects was sometimes that I knew quite a bit about their sect and that partly fascinated them. They were often as fascinated with me as I was with them?

Q: Do people move from one sect to another. What happens if you step out of line?

A: Yes and no, it depends on the sect. Todes Aaron, very, very closed. Todes Aaron miksak, very closed. But there is marriage. The women will move. The women will, if a woman marries a Hasidic from another sect, she will adopt the Hasidims of her new husband. So there’s more movements of the women between sects than the men between sects. How do gay Hasidim manage to live? Great question. Big question. Lots out there. Have a read on the net. In reality, with great difficulty but there is a gay Hasidic world out there, I can assure you. They lead, they’ll either absolutely, literally squash their desires and live a fully married life or they live a double life. It’s a fascinating area for discussion.

Q: What is their citizenship? Do they take Israeli citizenship? Do they take financial help from the state?

A: The answer will be sometimes, sometimes, sometimes. Their citizenship can be Americans or Israeli or maybe Belgium or maybe British. Some of them do take Israeli citizenship, some don’t. Some will take financial help from the state, some will refuse it. When my wife and I visited Me'a She'arim on a Friday afternoon in February, we were cautioned by our tour guide to be back on the bus no later than a certain time. On our arrival, the bus was surrounded by men seeking money. It was difficult getting off the bus. We were finally pushed by members of Mecca asking for money. I can believe that. Interesting, I’d like to know the full circumstances of that. We were wondered if we were not back on the bus by a certain time, we were likely to be stoned by children cause we were desecrating the Sabbath. Could be the case. Notice the word children. I mentioned to you that the hot-headed youth are the problem in Me'a She'arim. Most of the men have better things to do than throw stones. They have families to keep, they have jobs to go to and so on. I can well believe that it’s the hot-headed youth. Because you could argue that the rabbis don’t do enough to instruct the hot-headed youth to stop doing what they’re doing. You said one plait was available for marriage in the first picture and then the young girls, you said not ready. Yes, one available for marriage, two unavailable for marriage. But it does sometimes differ between sects, I should add.

Q: What languages do the Hasidic use?

A: It depends, Yiddish, Hebrew, other. It depends which sect. And of course there are many different dialects of Yiddish, Hungarian Yiddish, non-Hungarian Yiddish. In the main, most of these sects speak Yiddish and Hebrew and English, it depends which sect it is.

Q: What, in general, is the attitude to modern medicine?

A: Pretty much all embracing because there is the rabbinic Judaism, which instructs the the preservation of life overrides all, almost, I should say almost all other things, other than murder, adultery, and idol worship. So modern medicine is and should be embraced.

Q: Is there any intermarriage between the different groups?

A: I think I’ve mentioned that one.

Q: With such a small gene pool, is that expressed in many genetic disorders?

A: In some genetic disorders, yes. But they will take tests before marriage. They are careful about that. Thank you. I’m delighted that you’ve enjoyed it and that you found the information useful. Thank you very much, that was my pleasure. Thank you.

Q: With the intra marriage, yep, well chosen, do they have more mental illness than average?

A: I don’t know, I’m not a clinician. I bet you there’s some articles out, there are articles out there that are published so have a read about that. I’m not aware they do, but I might be wrong on that.

Q: If so many of them are too poor to buy a perfect escarole, how do they pay for the strums and the golden caftans?

A: Wealthy members of the community will buy those things for them. Everything in Me'a She'arim is community, community, community, community. If you earn money, you are expected to pour that money back into the community. You don’t go on cruises, you don’t go, you don’t buy yachts. You throw all that money back into helping those that are poor, buying food, buying clothes, setting us damasks, funds that will pay for washing machines, that will pay for meals, that will pay for whatever families need. Everything should be dealt with from cradle to grave by the community.

Q: Can you enlarge upon the issue of the women shaving their heads?

A: Yes but perhaps not enough time, but it’s seen as an additional and additional stricture in order to enhance modesty. Any form of hair by that particular sect is seen as a potential aspect of immodesty. Thank you very much. Glad you’ve enjoyed the talk, Adele.

Q: How do they rationalise and justify the diverse state benefits they receive?

A: Well, some don’t accept them. Those that would rationalise it will be by saying, well, it’s dirty money, but it’s then put to good use to lead to a holy life. And our holy life will enhance the whole state of the whole of the amni soul, the people of Israel. That will be one justification, there are others as well.

Q: Do these groups receive any money from the state?

A: Some do, some don’t.

Q: As Hasidic families grow, where do they live?

A: Some of them are moving out, some of 'em are bursting at the seams. is one area. They’re establishing satellite towns down in the Tivot and other places down in the Negev. And of course, some of them, many of them are in America and so on.

Q: Is the objection of the state of Israel based on the Masia?

A: Yes, partly but not solely. Please share that last picture again. I’m not sure whether I can go back to that. That’s of Nicholas and Father Christmas. We’ll see if Judi can very kind of bring up that last picture.

Q: Did you ever meet Rabbi Yoshi Saalam Idiashi?

A: If I didn’t meet him, but I saw him.

Q: How many Orthodox Jews are there in Israel?

A: Ooh, don’t know Linda, that is a good question. It depends how you define Orthodox would be my… Thank you very much for bringing that picture up.

Q: How would one define Orthodox Jews?

A: My goodness. So I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that. There are 10,000 Guarra families in Israel, I know that. Heads of families, yeah, 10,000 Guarra families. Difficult to define Orthodox, ultra-Orthodox. There is Hasidic ultra-Orthodox, non-Hasidic Orthodox. There is , which is the very strongly non-Hasidic ultra-Orthodox, as exemplified by Ponovich, Yeshiva, and Brene Brock, as exemplified by Gates at Yeshiva. Here in the United Kingdom, very strongly ultra-Orthodox but certainly not , certainly not Hasidic, I should say. My pleasure to Amalie.

Q: How did you get into a Tish?

A: You can just walk in every Friday night. And yes, you can leave when you want to. Absolutely. Both men and women can go. You need to do the ground work before to find out where it is, find out how they dress, dress accordingly, find out the times, and off you go. You will have a wonderful time. I have never experienced any bad experience. I have taken men and women and they’ve all said the same. They might feel off put by it. They might think oh, this is a culture shock. They might go, this is terribly extreme. But I’ve never met anybody that’s had a horrible experience or been affronted or insulted at a Tish, an outsider, I should say.

Q: Did you ever get flack for taking pictures you did not ask permission to take?

A: No, all my pictures without permission are distant pictures. Close up pictures, I asked.

Q: Can you tell us why the Hasidim are so anti-Zionist?

A: I think I’ve touched upon quite a bit of those things anyway. Throw me an email and I will happily send you an article that partly explains that.

Q: Elliott, if I’m not too personal, what do you do professionally?

A: I’m a teacher of history.

Q: Collette, is there a book which describes all the different dress amongst Hasidim?

A: Yes, there was a fantastic exhibition in the Israel Museum, it must be now about six years ago. Just Google Israel museum exhibition on Hasidic dress and I’m sure the book will come out. It is amazing. It is an amazing and wonderful and beautiful and informative book. And unlike almost every single thing that’s ever written about the Hasidic world, which is normally full of errors, that book, I couldn’t spot an error, I couldn’t fault it. So just Google those things, I think it should come up. If you cannot find that Collette, email me back and I’ll give you the details. I’ll dig it out.

Totally agree with you, Aviva. “Party and Power, the World of Jewish Fundamentalism” by David Landau, superb book. But that book was written now 15 years ago and it’s out of date because everything becomes out of date quite quickly in the Hasidic world. Superb book of Aviva, agree with you.

And David Landau writes beautifully. I do believe he died, did he not? Excuse me if I’m wrong there. I think he might have passed away.

Q: Lynn Adira, as the gene pool is so small is there issues of mental health?

A: I think I mentioned that covered that.

Q: How many Hasidic sects are there?

A: My goodness. Depends on how do define Hasidic sects. I’ve counted up to around about 150 worldwide, but I, there might be many more. Rona, my pleasure. And to a familiar words, I think you and I have been in touch, Rona, if it’s the same Rona.

Q: Marilyn, how did Hasidic marriage get to the war?

A: Yes, before '66, they pulled strings, they used the United Nations, they crossed the lines and went to UN lines and then passed them into the Old City that way. They pulled every string and used every bribery they could to get through. Please explain the attraction to Iran on the part of one of the rabbis. Oh, because the Iranians are seen as the great heroes of the Palestinians, fighting for a Israel-free Palestine. So therefore they admire Iran because Iran is at the vanguard of trying to put an end to the hated state of Israel. In the last photo, the wife looked pregnant again. I’m sure you’re right. I traced my ancestry back to Indeed, eight generations back. Wonderful.

Q: Should I contact or will they be receptive? Yes, why not?

A: What’s there to lose, Lawrence? Contact them. Why not? I think the , don’t they have a sect within Metania? I might be wrong.

Q: Do those who don’t acknowledge the legitimacy of the Israel state avail themselves of its services, such as healthcare?

A: Depends which. Some do, some don’t. Some will travel abroad for healthcare rather than avail themselves of the state. Some do and many would say that’s hypocrisy. Some pay their taxes and therefore they say, well, even if we don’t acknowledge it, we pay our taxes and therefore, we’re entitled to that help. Do the Hasidim receive national insurance payment from ? Some do, some don’t. Depends if they’re Israeli citizens or not. Some Israeli citizens live within Me'a She'arim, some are non-Israeli citizens living in Me'a She'arim, so it depends on their personal circumstances.

Q: Marlene, do the people among different sects intermarry?

A: I think I’ve answered that one. Your photographs are terrific. Thank you.

Q: Are they published?

A: No, they’re not.

Q: Does each sect have their own hospitals?

A: Some do, particularly in America sects will have their own, no, I’m wrong on that. They will sometimes fund their own wards within the hospitals. I choose my words carefully there.

Q: Can I get books on it, get your books on Amazon?

A: My books aren’t, I haven’t written a book, but I wrote articles for the Jerusalem Report and I would hope that they are on Google. If not, send me an email and I’ll send you through the ones I wrote on the courtesy.

Q: Are modern Orthodox in Me'a She'arim in the main?

A: No, completely different altogether. Modern Orthodox are not in Me'a She'arim.

Q: Where would you set the Habad?

A: I’m not sure what you mean by set the Habad. If that could be further explained. Where would I place them maybe? But there are very few of them in Me'a She'arim. Habad have a very low key presence in Me'a She'arim. Thank you, Lynn, I’m glad you enjoyed the lecture.

Norman, the population is exploding. And where do they find the place to live? They’re bursting at the seams and I think I’ve mentioned that they’re sorting out other places to live outside of Me'a She'arim.

Q: Barry, COVID, did they get vaccinated?

A: This was a big issue, a big issue in Israel. Some did, some didn’t. What got the publicity was Hasidim who refused or who disobeyed the laws or who just didn’t give a damn. What didn’t get the publicity were the rabbis that exhorted their followers to get COVID vaccinated. And by the way, a lot of the followers disobeyed their rabbis. This was a very, very interesting area of schism between the followers and their rabbis. And it could have maybe shifted the whole balance between the control that the rabbis have over their Hasidim and what they don’t.

Q: How do they own a living?

A: Well, despite popular misconceptions, the majority of Hasidim in the world, the vast majority of Hasidim in the world work and they have jobs, but some do not. And they earn a living through members of their community completely supporting them or state handouts or illegally getting monies. There are often scandals about Hasidim illegally getting money, particularly in New York state and other places. But again, I emphasise it’s always the bad apples that get the publicity. The vast majority of Hasidim work and they get an honest live and they eek out living. And the final answer is that will be, some are just very, very poor and live poverty-stricken lives.

Q: What is the level of divorce amongst Hasidim?

A: It’s very low, but it is growing extremely slowly but that is significant. There are statistics. Good old Google will have them. There are statistics and you should be able to find that out.

Q: Do the sects mostly now within their own sects?

A: I believe I’ve answered that. Recessively inherited genetic disorders, I think I’ve answered that as well. What happens when a breakaway sect is formed.

Q: Does the original sect cut it off?

A: Yeah, well yes and no. Often there was great politics at play when the Hasidic rabbi dies and there is power, money, property at stake. You will have fights between the various sons or the sons-in-law and that’s when Hasidic sects split. And it does cause great schisms.

Q: Do they accept Zionist social security?

A: I believe I’ve answered that one.

Q: Is there any meeting between women of different sects or religions?

A: There is definitely meetings between women of different sects, not of religions. I mean there might be exceptions when some remarkable and unusual Hasidic women might meet women of different religions. But generally speaking, no. sect or another sect. I believe I’ve answered that.

Q: How did you manage to take photographs?

A: I think I mentioned that. Beverly, Marjorie, and Lester. Had to mention Lester by hometown Lester in England. Good old Lester. Thank you. And delighted you enjoyed it. And by the way, there was a Hasidic Schtepel in Lester during the Second World War when people fled London, joined the Blitz, There was dunas, although dunas, I believe were lit fish, but there was also a small Hasidic sect on Sparkenholt Street in Lester. For three years, there was a Hasidic schtepel in Lester. I’ve never been able to see any of this from the inside before. Thank you Mindy Avery Scaping. And I hope I’ve pronounced you correctly. What a beautiful name. And I’m glad you liked the pictures. As always, thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed the pictures. There’ll be lots of Islamic pictures next.

Q: Do they get state benefits? Travel allowance?

A: I believe I’ve answered that.

Q: Do they vote in elections?

A: Same answer as the other ones actually, some do, some don’t. Depends on their take, depends on the instructions from the rabbi.

Q: Can Jews join any of these sects?

A: It’s a really interesting question. Yes, but remember the Jew that joins those sects will be bringing baggage and they’re often, it’s a difficult one there because the sect might feel like well, we’ll embrace you, but you’re going to get in the sort of shitter because you’re bringing baggage from an outside, contaminated world. So it’s a difficult one there. Many, many, of course non-Orthodox people join sects like Habad because Habad is a proselytising, a missionizing sect. That’s different to Satmar, Todes Aaron, Tegev, , very, very different.

Q: What are the dates of your previous presentations?

A: I think the office at Lockdown University will have that for you. They’ll have that information for sure. But going on memory, I think yes, I haven’t got the date specifically on me. Lockdown will have that for you, I’m sure, Marion and I hope that helps.

Q: Don, Me'a She'arim geographically is so small indeed. Where were those 250 grandchildren and hundreds others?

A: It’s a good question. Don’t know.

Q: What are the attitudes about COVID-19 vaccination?

A: I believe I’ve answered that. This is a fascinating area, what COVID has done to these communities. Not just what it’s done from the point view of killing so many of them, which it has, but what it’s done socially. What it’s done socially and anthropological. There are many learned anthropological articles being turned out in the dozens about the effects that COVID has had on the ultra-Orthodox world, really interesting stuff.

Q: What do these Hasidic Jews who are post-Satre think will happen to religious Jews if and when or were there ever to be a Palestinian state?

A: Yep indeed, with Jerusalem as its capital.

Q: Do they think that they will be massacred?

A: These are really interesting questions and yep, indeed, would they be supported, would they not? I put these questions to them. Some thinks that they would be able to exist then, they’d be tolerated. Others don’t answer the question.

Do the anti-Zionist sect social services… I believe i’ve answered that. Does intermarriage occur between the sects. I’ve answer that.

Q: Is the important to the Hasidim?

A: So the Josh between Russia and Yom Kippur, well is important generally. I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily more important.

Q: Well of course to everyone as is How can I get the article you wrote?

A: Just throw me an email about Lockdown University, tell me what you’d like, and I’ll send you the article.

Q: Where do the Karaites fit in?

A: My goodness. Let’s not go there for now. They don’t fit in to Me'a She'arim, in a nutshell. Completely different. Fascinating and I have spent time with the Karaites of Cairo and the Karaites of Jerusalem and I’ve also spent time with the Karaites in Iran as well. Very, very interesting.

Q: Do the residents have a hospital in Me'a She'arim? How modern, how well equipped? Is there actually one in Me'a She'arim?

A: No, but there are Hasidic run ambulance services that will take you to the hospitals outside. Although there is a hospital right at the edge of Me'a She'arim on Hauf Strauss.

Q: What about the life of the women and the girls?

A: Massive question. Again, there’s a lot of stuff out there on the internet. Have a read of that. But too big for me to go into now.

• [Judi] Sorry, Julian I don’t know how much, it’s 20 past eight. I don’t know how much-

• I’m happy to continue with questions if you’re happy with me continuing with questions.

• [Judi] I think it’s, I’m fine, if you can just go on for a little bit longer.

• Oh, Pam, look at this question, fascinating.

Q: Were they interested in your life?

A: Yes. And many fascinating conversations were had, I can tell you, about in my home into the early hours with Hasidim about the world that I came from and the world that they came from. I treated it at first as transactional. Well, you tell me and I’ll tell you. Let’s take all the gloves off. No taboos, I want to know about this. I want to know about this aspect of your life, about homosexuality, I want to know about politics, I want to know about your relationship with whoever. I want to know about your doubts about whatever it might be. And then they would ask me. So it was amazing, the complete no taboos, no holds-barred conversations I would have with them. Oh, it was magic, I can tell you. And that’s why the location of my house in Me'a She'arim was so crucial, that they could literally wander, at a quick run, 'cause Hasidims tend to walk very fast, you might have noticed, at a quick walk at a brisk pace, it was two minutes from the end of a into my home. So I would meet these people at will. It was fantastic. I liked that question, Pam.

Q: Lorna, do the rabbis of the different sects communicate with each other?

A: Yes, they communicate, they cooperate, they argue, they’re in conflict, they’re human beings. Watch Schtesel, again, on Netflix. They’re human beings with all the frailties and the greatnesses of every human being.

Q: Do you speak Yiddish, Hebrew, English with the Hasidim?

A: I spoke some Hebrew, a bit of Yiddish, in the main English. They wanted to speak English with me, actually, because they, because they wanted to learn a lot about the outside world. If they weren’t coming to me, if they were coming to me, by the way, that was already a statement they were interested. My extremely pigeon Yiddish, the most Yiddish I spoke was bits of Hungarian Yiddish because I was most interested in, I went for depth rather than breadth. And my great fascination was with the Hasidim of Todes Aaron, which is my area of great, great interest. And they speak Hungarian Yiddish. So their particular dialect, I picked up enough to get through. But really I spoke in English with them because that’s what they wanted from me.

Q: Would a modestly dressed woman be received as warmly as you were?

A: Yes. Because I took women and then I dispatched them upstairs. They took the women’s entrance and they would come down and they would say what a wonderful time they had. So I can tell you that those women were beautifully treated. The women that I took to Todes Aaron and other Hasidic places, they then took the secular women, then told me afterwards that they had nothing but a wonderful experience. We were in one year. Ah, the women always had their own uniforms. Correct. I pointed out to you those black head scarves and the pearls and the black coats that they wore. They do, they have their own uniforms.

Q: Do they take welfare for the Satre?

A: I believe I’ve turned to that. The answer is yes or now, it depends on whom you ask and it depends which Hasidim they are.

Q: Can you say something about the economy of Me'a She'arim?

A: Yes, a lot of poverty and a lot of shared wealth. But the Hasidim of Me'a She'arim are much poorer than the Hasidim of Williamsburg and the Hasidim of and the Hasidim of and so on. So again, just as I said, Hasidims appear monolithic to the outside world but Hasidic communities in different countries are very different to others. The economy in Me'a She'arim is partly dependent upon their Hasidic cousins and brothers all around the world who support them. That’s part of it. But the economy is also an economy like sort of economies used to be in the Western world. There were no contracts, there were no formalities. If you need money, if you need loans, if you need business, if you need this and need that, it’s all done on word-of-mouth. It’s on your name and your good name. It’s on contacts. Again, watch Schtesel. It touches upon these things. It’s all about the human relationships. That’s how these worlds operate. Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed the talk.

No, Mischa. Somebody says, apologies for my ignorance. Not at all. You said here, but if the state of Israel is not recognised do they, therefore, not pay taxes and cannot benefit from social security. This is the big debate that people say that there’s a basic hypocrisy and inconsistency involved. And I hope I’ve touched upon that quite a few times in this. I hope that’s come through. Glad you enjoyed the talk. Sandy Dagmar, in the early 1970s while living in Israel, I drove by mistake through .

Q: Oh dear. My car was stoned. What will be, in your opinion, the justification of this expression of violence and harassment?

A: Their justification will be that the Torah says those that break Shabbath shall be stoned. They will believe that they are carrying out a stricture. In fact, they would go further, if you don’t stone the person, you are disobeying the stricture of the Torah. That said, there are some Hasidic rabbis that would say, do not stone. Do not do that because it is a hilelhashem. It gives Hasidim and more importantly, Judaism, a terrible name. So again, we all hear about the Hasidim that throws stones. We don’t hear about the vast Hasidim that don’t. If every person that was a hostage threw a stone, the whole of the Jerusalem would be covered in stones. But it’s not because most Hasidims do not go on demonstrations, do not throw stones, they just get on with their lives quietly. We might not agree with their lives. We might not approve of their lives. But they don’t go out throwing stones. I’m not in any way minimising what would’ve been a very disturbing experience for you. But their justification would be that they’re carrying out the commands of the Torah. But it would’ve been a minority that would’ve done it.

Q: Is it true that in the 1930s wore red and blue robes?

A: Yes. Yes, to a certain extent. There was a shade of red in some of them and some of them still wear blue robes, by the way, to this day. books. Well books, I believe his Hasidim is called the Latever Hasidim and that was a thinly-belted disguise for the laboratory facility 'cause he was brought up in Old Habab, not modern Habab, which his very, very different from old Habab. The the seventh and final . Completely revolutionzed the babbage. Before him, the , the previous was Old Habab, which was not Zionist, which was not as open as the Habab we have all come to understand now. The the last of our lecture ever completely transformed that. So the Heim Pottack was writing about the sort of Old Kabab, which was much more conservative and there was a lot of great accuracy in those. Elliot you are in Chicago, I’m in London living right behind the British Museum.

Thank you Sandy, I’m glad you enjoyed the talk. Dagmar, I have mentioned you already, what kind of oven bakes a 17 for colour. A pretty big one but I have seen those onions. The onions, those ovens. Thank you for the most informative discussion. Thank you Mavis, I’m glad you enjoyed it.

Q: Laila, yes, do people with mental health issues receive treatment?

A: - They do. It used to be very much in-house because mental health was seen as being a terrible stigma. That is changing. It’s changing slowly, mental health is being addressed by outside agencies, but it’s slow, it’s slow.

• [Judi] Julian, can we take one more question, please 'cause it’s nearly 8:30, if you don’t mind.

• Let’s take two more.

Q: Margo, how does someone become rich enough to help the poor members?

A: Good business acumen.

And for the last one, sorry about this, let’s take the last one. Daniel Esser, it’s terrible if we need to choose questions here.

Q: What about education? Can they study at university? How do they become doctors?

A: Those that go to universities will have to have special permission from their rabbis. That permission can be given. There are many Hasidic doctors, there are many Hasidim that go to university, a very small proportion really. But in order to go, they would have to justify to their rabbi that by going to the university, number one, they will go to university, go to the lectures and come straight back home. They won’t take part in the wider life of the university. And secondly, what they study at university can be then brought back into the benefit of the community. Engineering, architecture, medicine, accountancy, things that can benefit the community.

Judi, thank you very much indeed. And thank you all for attending and I look forward to seeing you all next month.

• [Judi] Thank you so much, Julian. And we will see everybody soon. Thank you. Good night.

• [Julian] Good night. Thank you.