Ted Deutch
Antisemitism in America: How Did We Get Here?
Ted Deutch - Antisemitism in America: How Did We Get Here?
- So we are very pleased today to be joined by Ted Deutch. Ted, a lifelong Jewish and pro-Israel activist, assumed the role of CEO of American Jewish Committee, AJC, in October, 2022, following more than 12 years of distinguished service in the United States House of Representatives. In Congress, Ted was a leading voice in the fight against antisemitism and efforts to advance the US-Israel relationship. He was a founding member of the House bipartisan task force for combating antisemitism, and he served as Chair of the House Ethics Committee and a senior member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee where he chaired the Middle East, North Africa, and Global Counter-Terrorism subcommittee. Ted began his career in public service in the Florida State Senate where he gained national recognition for passing the nation’s first law mandating that public pension funds should not be used to advance Iran’s illicit activities. Prior to holding public office, he enjoyed a successful career as a commercial real estate attorney in Cleveland and Boca Raton. He served as a lay leader with the Jewish Federations of Cleveland and South Palm Beach County, and as a member of both UJA’s National Young Leadership Cabinet and Apex National New Leadership Network. Ted and his wife, Jill, have lived in Boca Raton, Florida since 1998 and have three adult children, Gabby, Serena, and Cole. That is quite a bio mouthful, Ted.
It was. It’s a little too much to be honest, but thank you very much.
No, there’s a lot of ground to cover, so we don’t mind. So we’ve got an hour, and in that hour you’re going to convince us how to solve antisemitism in America. No pressure.
Got it. I’m ready.
So I think it would help if we started with a little bit of reflection. You know, over the last few months, there’s been a lot of very concerning headlines about where the Jewish community in America finds itself. Growing up in the UK, when I first moved to America, people kind of said to me, “Oh, you can relax now.” Whereas actually the first time I went to synagogue in America and nobody asked me who I was or tried to search me, I found it a very disconcerting experience. I’m both pleased to see there is now security outside synagogue in America, but disappointed to see that America has understood it’s necessary. So let’s start by looking back a little bit. How do you think it’s historically been to be a Jew in America?
Well, first, thanks for having me. And you’re right. That description you just gave I think is really apt, that it is really disconcerting that that’s the moment that we’re in, and that’s the case because of the history of Jews in America. America has been a place where the Jewish community has found great success, has been welcomed, has found its place in society, leadership roles throughout society. And yet, throughout our history, there has always been discrimination and antisemitism. We’ve always, even as we’ve worked in concert with others to help America live up to its promise of religious freedom and tolerance, we’ve often found ourselves scapegoated and found ourselves on the receiving end of prejudice that dates back really throughout the history of our country. If you think about all of the success we’ve made, you also have to reflect on what it meant when there were quotas at universities and graduate schools that limited the number of Jews admitted, when there are large areas of cities that would not welcome Jews. The city I grew up in, there were parts where deed restrictions specifically said that there were no Jews allowed. You couldn’t sell your home to a Jewish family. If you think back to Ford, in his newspaper in Michigan, publishing “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion,” the conspiracy theories that have plagued the Jewish people for millennia were present here as well. That said, we enjoyed a very long time when, just over the past number of decades really, where there may have been anti-Semitic, we know that there was antisemitism. It didn’t go away, but you couldn’t talk about it. It wasn’t out in the open. It wasn’t normalised. And the moment we find ourselves in now because of, I know, social media, because of a lot of things I suspect we’re going to talk about over the next hour or so, is what has so many Jews feeling on edge, feeling concerned, and knowing that what we witnessed in Europe and what we called out for decades in many ways, we’re now grappling with here. And I appreciate very much the opportunity to talk about ways for us to approach these issues together, and strongly and boldly, and all with the fundamental notion that Jews need to be able to practise freely and safely in our country, and that has to be what our goal is.
Yesterday I was listening to an interview with David Baddiel where, you know, he was reflecting on his book, “Jews Don’t Count.” And I dunno how much you know about David, but growing up in the UK, you know, he was known as a Jewish comedian kind of just, and, you know, more from the content of his jokes than the fact that he spoke about being Jewish. He will proudly tell you he’s an atheist. He’s made clear his positions on Israel, and yet he’s chose to write a book where, you know, really he’s targeting the progressive audiences and trying to explain to those who think of themselves as anti-racist why they seem to have such an issue navigating antisemitism. And, you know, one of the things that I think has surfaced from his book and from conversations I’ve heard him have is this challenge today for people to navigate what we in the Shine A Light campaign have been calling modern day antisemitism. You know, effectively it rests on the definition of IHRA, but it’s not just your tiki torches through Charlottesville saying Jews will not replace us. Now why do you think it’s become a challenge for people to understand that, you know, as the late Rabbi Sack would call it, the mutating oldest virus continues to mutate. And what do you think is the most helpful way to explain antisemitism in America for people today?
Well, first of all, I think it depends who we’re explaining it to. There is still, and this is an important part of the work that AJC does. There is still the old-time antisemitism that is based on conspiracy theories and lies that goes back millennia that has impacted the Jewish community in so many ways; Being excluded from society, being ghettoised, being attacked, expelled from countries. Obviously . There is that antisemitism that is still present even as it mutates and has mutated into this modern form of antisemitism as well. There is still the antisemitism on the extreme right. The white nationalists who, with those tiki torches, were making clear that they despise the Jews and others, and if we don’t confront that, we’re failing to acknowledge that when there is antisemitism, it’s just a sign of greater problems in society. And in particular, remembering that the killer, obviously, at Tree of Life, the deadliest attack on the American Jewish community, was an antisemite. The killer in El Paso, Texas who went to the Walmart looking for immigrants, we know was a vile antisemite, as was the killer in Buffalo who went into the supermarket in a Black neighbourhood. Again, that kind of antisemitism still exists. Now add to that this mutation, and this is why the IHRA definition is actually helpful. It’s why we spend so much time providing training to local governments and to university officials and to corporations, because it’s this mutating antisemitism that now has replaced Jew with Israel. And if you are supportive of Israel, then in so many places now, and as David Baddiel writes I think powerfully in his book, the kind of antisemitism that singles out Jews because of their support for Israel and that attributes to Jews, whether they care deeply about Israel or not. And I think David, the author, makes clear Israel’s not, it’s not a big focus of his life. You and I are strong Zionists. It matters a lot what happens in Israel to us. He isn’t.
But for so many people it doesn’t matter, because this modern day antisemitism simply understands, it seems, that you can’t call out the Jew because that’s somehow taboo. And we’ve seen this now with some of the anti-Semites on the far left who have been happy to attack, rightfully so, and condemn the antisemitism of the right with this blind spot for what they’re engaged in, which is an antisemitism that says everything that Israel does that I don’t like, and for many of them, that means the very existence of the state of Israel, I’m going to impose upon the Jewish community as a whole and I’m going to treat the entire Jewish community as being responsible for everything that happens in Israel. And I’m going to use all of my networks to drive that kind of focus on the Jewish community that puts the community at risk. And that has this real blind spot for, this is the last piece of this, for the lived experience of Jews in America, in the UK, throughout Europe, in the world, failing to understand that Jews have experienced antisemitism, that there has been this persecution of the Jewish community throughout moments throughout history. And that now when there are attacks against the Jewish community, there is a willingness to simply look away, that it somehow doesn’t fit into the current worldview of some that says you have to be part of a marginalised community. And there’s a misunderstanding of the Jewish community that believes that somehow the Jewish community is this big monolithic, white, successful community that faces no antisemitism. But when we feel it from the anti-Israel left and we feel it from the white nationalist right, and we realise that the community is big and diverse and comes from different parts of the world and there are Jews of colour and Jews who identify in the way they observe, if they observe it all. All of that is irrelevant in this new form of antisemitism and it’s that pernicious kind of attack that has so many of us feeling uneasy and on edge, and that’s what we’ve got to confront now as much as anything.
So in your previous role, you obviously had some colleagues who many will feel embodied some of the challenges we’ve just talked about. And I know that you tackled a number of those moments head on. Given the concerns for the Jewish community about how to navigate the progressive worldview to help them understand the antisemitism, And reflecting on what you’ve just said about, you know, there is this opinion amongst progressive communities that Jews are, you know, white privilege. How did you handle some of those conversations with your colleagues in helping them understand, or not, how to think about antisemitism today?
Well, in a couple of ways. First of all, you have to understand, they have to understand, and we try to do this, again, in the training that we provide. You’ve got to appreciate the lived experience of members of the Jewish community. This isn’t some theoretical conversation. There are real Jews in the world who have been impacted by this type of antisemitism. So it starts by helping to explain, number one, that there may be a wide variety of views in the world and in the Jewish community about different Israeli policies. But fundamentally, when your position is that the state of Israel has no right to exist, I want them to understand how, one, that is different than the position they take with respect to any other challenge of any other government in their view anywhere in the world and that they recognise that that’s a position they’re taking with respect to the only Jewish state in the entire world. And that when you say, as has happened now with student groups at Berkeley just recently and has happened in certain progressive spaces, when you say that if you support Israel that you are not welcome in this particular space, it’s a message that you’re sending, not about politics and not about Israel, but about the overwhelming majority of American Jews who feel some connection to the state of Israel, that it’s ultimately antisemitism. It’s because you are excluding an entire group of people because of their beliefs and because their support for Israel is inextricably linked to their position as Jews in the world. That’s what you try to explain. Ultimately, sometimes people get it. Sometimes they don’t want to get it. And I can’t spend all of my time focused on those who take that position, that outrageous position, that only the Jewish state shouldn’t have a right to survive. I want to focus on corporations when they’re trying to be good allies for their Jewish employees and help them understand how that’s antisemitism and makes Jews feel at risk. I want local government officials to understand what’s happening in their community and how Jews are feeling right now in their community. The same thing on college campuses. That’s where the important focus is right now.
So let’s talk about corporations. You know, as part of Shine a Light, one of the big focuses has been on engaging with corporations across America. And, you know, particularly because after George Floyd about two and a half years ago, three years ago now, there was a big push for corporations to adopt DEI in the workplace and to run much more robust programming to make all communities feel welcome in the workplace. However, what we’ve noticed, and it’s something that, you know, I’ve talked to a lot of your AJC colleagues about, is that generally speaking, DEI programming does not include education on antisemitism, and it doesn’t include engaging with the Jewish community as a minority. And therefore a lot of the time, Jews in the workplace are finding themselves either with nowhere to go when something happens or that the comprehensive education programming that may now be being run to help people understand other types of minorities in the workplace is not happening with regards to the Jewish community. Reassuringly, when you actually talk to DEI offices themselves, actually we are finding them to be very open to bringing in that kind of education. But you first of all have to cross this challenge of, first of all, the perhaps perception that Jews are white privilege and don’t suffer in any way, but also this challenge that people don’t really know where to put a Jew, as it were. They don’t fit in a religious employee group that other minorities may fit in. They also struggle to put them in a group around race or ethnicity. And so a lot of the time, there is this challenge for corporations to understand how to tackle Jews in the workplace, but also antisemitism. Can you tell us a bit more about what you and your colleagues have been doing to tackle this, and how are you finding the reception?
Sure. And let me just go back to what you just said because it really informs the work that we do in this space, which is, you’re right. Diversity, equity, and inclusion offices at corporations, they seek to foster belonging. They want to create a better sense of unity in their workplace. And it is a growing, diverse workplace. And that’s something that they’ve now acknowledged. And to your point, what they often do is they misunderstand, if they even try to understand, who Jews are, that they have a hard time, as you point out, figuring where. Are they a religion? Are they an ethnic group. How does it fit in? And it’s confusing because we’ve seen so many Jews feel threatened. What concern could you possibly have? It has been confusing and that’s where, to understand the history of the Jewish community in America, the current situation that has caused so many of us to be uneasy and for so many people to be afraid, why it is when social media influencers start publishing horrifically anti-Semitic statements that seemingly they do two things. They bring the old-time anti-Semites out from under their rocks, who then feel comfortable hanging signs from highway overpasses and dropping leaflets in Jewish neighbourhoods. But it’s also hard for their Jewish employees when no one’s coming to their defence, just as they came to the defence of others when others felt at risk. So the training that that we’ve provided helps them understand what antisemitism is, what the lived experience of Jews right now in their companies or in their local governments or in their communities, what that really is. How it impacts them. Why it is that their concerns that they can respond. Businesses overwhelmingly want to be supportive.
They want to be good allies for their Jewish employees. They want to create a workplace where everyone feels welcome, and we play a role trying to help them identify what antisemitism is, how to respond to it, how to create systems that will protect the wellbeing of the Jewish community in their business. And to your specific question, how’s it going? We’re dealing with a flood of incoming requests from a whole host of a whole host of companies, large and small, around the country in all kinds of different industries. We’ve done trainings in the music industry and the content world. We’ve done trainings for social media companies and publishing companies. We did a training for Lufthansa after that terrible treatment of the group of Jews, the group of Orthodox Jews, who really were treated, both in the way they were treated and the statements that were made at the time in a way that could only be perceived as antisemitic. Lufthansa tried to address it. They didn’t really understand. It was clear. They didn’t really understand what it is that they had done that was so hurtful to the community. So we interacted with them. We provided training and it was an incredibly impactful opportunity for their leaders to understand where we’re coming from so that they could respond to it, something that they now want to do more broadly throughout the industry. These are the kinds of steps that we’re taking. In a way we’re playing catch up because there have been challenges to other communities that in so many cases really helped spur the DEI movement forward.
You have these diversity equity inclusion offices. Now there’s a moment when the Jewish community feels at risk. They’re often late to the game in dealing with the Jewish community, but they’re willing. They’re interested. They find it really helpful to learn more about how to respond to these moments. It’s the same reason that in the academic world, AJC has taken a number of project interchange trips to Israel, and we’ve got some coming up with diversity equity inclusion officials to help them understand, too, the challenges in this case to Jews on campus. Last thing I’m going to say about this, Carly. It’s sometimes hard both at the corporate level and the campus level for leadership to be able to make sense of the fact that on the one hand they have a company or a university campus, which is a really good place for Jews to work and where Jews have historically felt comfortable, and simultaneously to have things happening that make Jews feel uncomfortable. And it’s not either/or, just like it’s not either/or for any other population. When there are things that make the Jewish community feel uncomfortable, when there’s antisemitism present, there is a responsibility to act on behalf of their employees, and that’s what they’re now doing. That’s what we’re helping them do through our training.
So one of the questions we have when we start to talk about bringing antisemitism into DEI training is the groups you talk to are very comfortable when you are focused on perhaps more right wing antisemitism or some of the early parts of the IHRA definition around what we would assume is things people are more comfortable recognising. And then there’s a kind of quiet whisper of, but you’re not going to bring up Israel, are you? Or how are you going to handle Israel in the training? And one of the challenges of the IHRA definition is it’s an academic definition that wasn’t necessarily written to be, you know, hugged and brought around as something that people could really get to grips with and and understand. But also that it is complicated to talk about Israel. Israel is not a country that is free from criticism. If you read the Israeli newspapers every morning, you know that most of the criticism comes from every corner of Israeli society. But it’s a challenge to help people work through the distinction between valid criticism of policies of Israel versus the existence of the state of Israel or unique discrimination directed at Israel. How do you navigate those questions in helping people understand where the line is when it comes to engaging on Israel?
You’re right. It’s complicated, on the one hand. On the other hand, there are parts of this that aren’t as complicated as they seem. When you point out to people, as the IHRA definition speaks to, that you are treating Israel differently than you treat literally any other country in the entire world, when you are advocating positions that effectively will mean the end of the one Jewish state. And this is the importance of actually implementing the IHRA definition. And when you help people understand, and this is I think the one that’s the easiest for people to grasp, that while there may be differences of opinion about Israeli policy, which as you point out happens all of the time in Israel especially, that to then impose those criticisms on the entire Jewish community. We want people to understand what it means when they treat Israel differently than every other country. But then we also want them to understand that if you take every criticism of a sovereign country that has existed now for 75 years, the modern state of Israel, almost 75 years, and you then impose that on the Jewish community as a whole and you say, “I’m uncomfortable with whatever policy of Israel and therefore you, Mr. Jewish American working in this company, you are responsible for every decision that governor is making that I might be critical of. And because you are responsible, I don’t want to associate with you. I don’t think that you should have certain responsibilities.” That’s when people start to… When they think about it in those terms, it’s clear that that behaviour just can’t be acceptable. In a related way, I was in France meeting with leaders of the Jewish community there and leaders among Jewish university students in particular. Carly, and that’s exactly what happens to them even when they’re not talking about Israel. When people on their campus find out that they’re Jewish, they immediately start attacking because of their views about Israel. For me, that’s the place that you start because you have to separate whatever these debates are about Israel. And I want to have them, and I want to push back and tell them why their views are anti-Semitic. But I absolutely want them to understand that when they try to impose that on me and the way that they view me, holding me responsible and trying to marginalise me and my workplace in society, that’s got to stop. That’s the way we start to approach this.
So we’ve referenced over the last few questions the role of social media. And it won’t be a surprise to anyone on this call, but there is obviously a huge opportunity for people who would like to espouse anti-Semitic views to do it somewhat unchecked on social media. But also we have seen in terms of looking at recent incidents or reporting that what happens on social media doesn’t stay on social media and does crossover into real life. How do you see the role of social media in engaging with antisemitism on their platforms, but also how concerning do you think it should be for the Jewish community in terms of what happens on social media and the reality of out and about on the streets in the real world?
Well, it ought to be, and it is. Not it ought to be. It’s an enormous concern. In those periods that we talked about earlier when Jews didn’t really feel a threat of antisemitism in America, the anti-Semites were there. They were just meeting in parking lots or in remote forests to share their antisemitic views and hand flyers to one another and do all the kinds of terrible things that we know still happen today. Now they have an outlet that takes their hatred, digitises it, spreads it using algorithms created by social media companies to spread it far and wide because it inflames people. And the way algorithms are created,, they’re meant to drive traffic and this is the way to do it. Social media companies have a responsibility to ensure that their platforms aren’t being used to peddle antisemitism. And other forms of hate as well, but they are. Right now, they’re not living up to that responsibility. Just before I left Congress, we helped to launch the inter-parliamentary task force to combat online antisemitism, and we did it with parliamentarians from around the world because social media’s reach goes around the world. I think we have to ask ourselves some fundamental questions. The main one is this: We work to get into the online companies, to get social media companies. We encourage them to abide by their own rules about hate speech and to take down anti-Semitic posts. We urge them to make sure that they have the strongest possible policies to confront antisemitism.
But at some point we have to ask the question, whether it should really be up to the social media companies to make determinations about what is and isn’t in the best interest of public safety and the safety of the Jewish community and other communities. And so we continue both our work with companies. We were engaged with Meta to get Facebook to address the issue of online anti-Semitism. Holocaust denial in particular and Holocaust distortion. That was a successful effort. We work with other companies as well to try to get them to reign in the antisemitism. It doesn’t always work as well, but it has to be a focus of what we do because the reach is so great and the opportunities to do harm are so significant. And I think we’re just, frankly, scratching the surface of what is going to be the most important debate going forward. All of the focus on a few online purveyors of antisemitism, the attention that Kanye brought to this issue is important, but it actually shines a light, if I may, Carly, not just on antisemitism that we’ve been talking about and the classic sort of conspiracy thinking, Nazi-loving, horrific antisemitism that’s existed for so long, but this contemporary antisemitism that we’ll see every time Israel defends itself, a wave of memes generated to be shared widely full of misinformation, lies, all meant to undermine the ability for Israel to defend herself. The ability for us, frankly, those of us who care about peace in the region to move toward peace. This conversation is just starting, but it’s an enormously important one, and social media companies have an enormous responsibility that they’ve got to live up to.
So I don’t want to ask you to be partisan, but I do want to talk about the last few weeks, particularly around Donald Trump and some of the elevation of anti-Semites who, you know, going back to your point about they always existed but they met in dark rooms. Well, now not only are they on social media, but they are being elevated by a former president and a, you know, candidate to be president again. But also the response of the Republican party and even, you know, Jews from within the Republican party. But also the challenges that the Squad present to the Jewish community. How do you think that the community can address this? And where do you see the next sort of two years of American dialogue going, and how can we help those understand the very real risk to the community by elevating the platform of these individuals?
That’s the central question here, right? Because this isn’t a Kanye issue. It’s not a Nick Fuentes issue. These are rabid anti-Semites who need to be condemned. There is, I think, a good, healthy national conversation about antisemitism. I’ve done more interviews lately with non-Jewish interviewers who use that opportunity with me to share their own concerns about their Jewish friends, often their Jewish relatives, the synagogue around the corner. That’s moving us forward. But we’re never going to be able to truly push back unless we draw a red line. And that line should be, if you engage in antisemitism, there are no apologies we’ll make for you. There is no hesitation in condemning you that your party affiliation might impose on us. And that’s true on the far left. If there are elected officials whose position is that Jews are not welcome because they support Israel, we’ve got to condemn them singularly and expect that others in the Democratic party will condemn them for taking those positions. Likewise, when the former president of the United States hosts rabid anti-Semites, Holocaust-denying, rabid anti-Semites, at his home for a meal, there can be no one, no one who tries to explain that maybe he didn’t know who they were, maybe there was some confusion, that it was just a meal. There is no rationalising. There’s no defending. Mike Pence and so many others have been really clear about what needs to happen, which, in this case, the former president needs to condemn it immediately and walk away from it and make clear that of course, it’s horrific and he could never support it.
And in this case, it’s the other side of that. In this case, it’s the Republicans should be clear that they’re not going to tolerate that. I think we have to acknowledge that this is the leading, currently the leading candidate for president of the United States from one of the two major parties in the United States. And the power of Donald Trump condemning the people that he hosted and pushing back hard and never saying that the Jews don’t appreciate or the Jews aren’t loyal, or the characterizations that he’s made about the Jewish people. All of those characterizations need to stop. The condemnations need to come. That would go an enormously long way toward saying that we won’t tolerate this. But if he’s not going to do it, everyone else needs to. Fighting antisemitism can never be a partisan issue. When I was a member of Congress, I condemned those in my own party just as I condemned those in the other party. It needs to be true for everyone, all of the time, who cares about protecting the Jewish community. That’s the moment that we’re in and I commend people like Vice President Pence for his strong statements, and so many others who have made clear what this moment requires. That needs to be a position taken by everyone in both parties about those in their own party and the other.
So last week you were part of the administration’s hastily organised round table on antisemitism, chaired by the second gentleman and with Ambassador Susan Rice. And I’m sure that is not the first time you’ve sat round those tables in your previous role. And, you know, it’s important that these things are shown to be a serious concern to the administration. But what do you see, and I saw some comments from you afterwards that this is an important first step. But what do you see as the next step? Not just by the administration, but also by your former colleagues in the legislature as well?
Well, it was, first of all… I’ve been to lots of events at the White House before. But as a proud American Jew, as a committed Zionist, as someone who spends, like you and so many tuning in, spend so much of our time worrying about all of the ways we need to protect the community. It was very powerful, very powerful, for a meeting to take place, a meeting of Jewish leaders to take place at the White House with senior administration officials. The fact that we have a special envoy to combat antisemitism, and Deborah Lipstadt is meaningful. The fact that the second gentleman, the vice president’s husband, is Jewish and spoke really emotionally about how he is a proud Jew and he will not be afraid at this moment, even as he’s horrified by everything that we’re seeing. And for me, I think, most importantly, to have this meeting where the President of the United States’ Chief Domestic Policy Advisor, Susan Rice, was sitting at the table listening to us express our concerns, that itself was really important. It was hard not to think about what a meeting like that might have meant in the late 1930s, for example. So we’re on the right track, and I was really heartened that that meeting took place. Going forward, however, it can’t just be an opportunity for people to express their concerns. It has to lead to action. And for us at AJC, as we watch the rise in antisemitism in Europe over a decade, two decades, and we saw the deadly attacks in France and Belgium and the changes in the communities throughout all of Europe. And we were so concerned. We launched a task force in Congress to focus on antisemitism because of what was happening in Europe.
That was our focus. And then here we are, as Deborah Lipstadt said, she said, “I can’t go to these countries and say ‘You have a problem’ anymore, because we have a problem.” So just as in those countries, AJC worked to help shape a response that ultimately became, in countries all across Europe, national action plans to combat antisemitism through an inter-agency process, bringing together the entire government, every layer of government, to help have a plan to combat antisemitism and safeguard Jewish life. The way that Francis now published their report, Germany has published its report. The EU has its own. The EU has an official in charge of this. That’s what we need here. And it’s not too much to ask for the administration to formulate its own national action plan. It’s consistent. What I’m asking for, what AJC is asking for, is consistent with what more than 100 members of Congress, so many of them my former colleagues, said in a letter to the White House. We need everyone to come together because it’s not just more security funding for our nonprofit and religious institutions. It’s not just the IHRA definition. It’s a concerted effort bringing together the Department of Justice and Homeland Security, the Department of Education to deal with what’s happening on college campuses. In many ways, the Department of Commerce should be at the table given the ongoing BDS efforts. There are so many parts of our government, which together, combined with the megaphone, the bully pulpit that the president has, can really help change the narrative at this moment to help keep us safe. That’s what we require going forward.
And how important do you think it is that the president uses his pulpit to continue to push the IHRA definition? You know, we’ve seen Secretary Blinken talk about it early on, but we also know that, you know, in some parts it’s seen as partisan, given that it was President Trump who adopted it formally by executive order a few Hanukkahs ago. We also know that although it is the definition accepted and endorsed by the large majority of the Jewish community, that there are other definitions out there. How important do you think it is at this stage that the American government says this is the definition of antisemitism that we are adopting?
Right. I mean, I think the majority of states at this point, dozens of countries throughout the world, have adopted the definition-
[Carly] 28 states.
28.
I’ve got a little ticker in the corner of my computer. I’m joking.
Yeah, no. And it’s really important. And understanding that the IHRA definition and, in particular, the definition and the examples are meant as examples. And those who argue that this somehow is meant to be a speech code are mischaracterizing what it is. And I think we have to be clear about what it is because you can’t deal with a problem unless you define it first, unless you understand what it is. And that’s what the IHRA definition does. And so yes, the administration should continue to use it, just as the State Department has made clear under Secretary Blinken that it does. And this needs to be a focus. But at the same time, there are lots of things in addition to that that the administration can do. A lot of people, Carly, a lot of people said to him about the president’s tweet last week where he said that the Holocaust happened and he condemned antisemitism.
People shrugged their shoulders because to them it seemed so obvious and so unnecessary for the President to have to say that. I actually saw that really differently. I thought at a time when you had Kanye literally across social media praising Hitler, expressing support for the Nazis, claiming that the Holocaust never happened, do I wish that the president of the United States wouldn’t have to say something so patently obvious to all of the rest of us? Yes. But is it critically important for him personally to push back against that kind of antisemitism, to help show why that that has to be condemned just as we’re working to make sure that they’re using the IHRA definition to know all of the other ways that they should be thinking about how to protect the Jewish community? Yes, all of it matters. All of it is important. And if the goal, which it is, from this administration and every other administration, frankly. The goal is to try to unify the American people, find ways to bring the American people together, then that means acknowledging when there are challenges to specific groups. And right now our last study showed that 40% of the American Jewish community has changed its behaviour so as to not appear identifiably Jewish in social media posts or walking down the street or any of the other ways that they feel they could be at risk. That’s a giant problem for us. And the president using every tool at his disposal throughout the administration to address it is not too much for us to be asking when the community feels so legitimately at risk.
So although the bulk of this conversation is about America, I know that at AJC, you crisscross all over the world talking about antisemitism. And I think last week or over the last 10 days, you were in about five countries. How do you feel this problem is internationally? You touched on Germany’s report, on France’s report. I know you were in Greece. Where do you see Europe and globally the situation, and what do you think perhaps America can learn from what worked or didn’t work over the last few decades elsewhere?
Well, look, first and foremost, I hope that what America has learned from the experience in Europe is that you can’t tolerate it. A year ago, last May, when Hamas was raining rockets down on Israel, the President Macron made clear that he wouldn’t tolerate, the French would not tolerate the kind of violence that we saw play out in the United States. People being pulled from their chairs and beaten, fireworks being launched at Jews walking down the street in New York City. We need to learn that taking action is what’s necessary, and that that deadliest attack on the American Jewish community at Tree of Life that should be, God willing, the deadliest attack on the American Jewish community. We should be working to ensure that we’re doing everything we can to keep the community institutions safe. That’s clearly something to learn from the communities in Europe. And I talked about the community in France. I was in Athens, Greece for a meeting of mayors from around the world to combat antisemitism, hosted by the mayor of Athens, who’s very committed to working with the community and standing up to speak out. Because what these mayors understand, whether there are half a million Jews like there are in France, or whether there are just a couple thousand Jews, it still means that if there is antisemitism in your community, there’s a bigger problem. There’s a societal problem. That’s what I heard from mayor after mayor when I was in Athens at this meeting. And then following through from that meeting, we went to Mexico. I met in Mexico City with leaders of the Mexican Jewish community, but also AJC’s partners from Brazil and from Argentina and Guatemala and Chile, and Columbia and Panama and others throughout Latin America.
And what we need to learn from them is that, just as AJC works with the community to strongly advocate for those communities with their governments, that meeting that we had at the White House has to be, again, has to be just the start, that we have to advocate at the highest levels and all across government with our local elected officials, our state elected officials, that advocacy really matters. That’s how elected officials understand the severity of the problem that we know, because we’re dealing with it every day. And I’ll just finish on with a comment that was made by one of our partners from Brazil who said in I think the most telling statement that I’ve heard. He said, “Look, we used to look at America as the standard for a place where Jews can live freely as Jews and safely as Jews.” And he said, “We can’t see it that way anymore. We don’t view it that way because of this rise in antisemitism. That can’t ever be accepted or normalised.” And that’s the biggest takeaway from all of this. So we can never just accept that what happened in Europe is somehow perfectly acceptable to happen in America, or to think that there’s nothing we can do to prevent it.
And we haven’t touched on the UN, and we’re going to have an entire hour dedicated to the UN. But do you think the UN is a lost cause or do you think there is work that could be done to engage with the UN on, you know, many of their positions and responses that the Jewish community feel crosses the line?
No, I don’t think it’s a lost cause at all. I think to the contrary, we should be doubling down on our efforts at the UN. That’s the way that we’re thinking about this. Our Jacob Blaustein Institute has been working at the UN for decades now, and there are opportunities to make sure that the UN understand. There are lots of things we can do. There are opportunities to make sure the UN understands the threats that the community is facing. I was privileged to speak at the first special session at the United Nations on antisemitism, very powerful, when Ambassador Power was our permanent representative to the UN. I think we need to, do that again. And there are conversations with our UN officials, the US officials at the UN, to do that again right now to, again, help shine a light on antisemitism. It’s important for us to continue to work with members of the UN, to work, as AJC does, advocating not just in New York, but in Washington. There is often a disconnect between what ambassadors think may be the views of their government and what their corresponding colleagues are doing in New York. That has to be a concerted effort. And then we have to use our power.
This is the positive example I’ll give. When the bloody crackdown in Iran started, AJC said that if we’re going to have a seat at the Human Rights Council, then we ought to use that for positive purposes. And we advocated for a special session of the Human Rights Council to focus on Iran’s human rights abuses. And at the end of November, that’s exactly what they did. And it was very powerful. We need to build upon that to not just focus on the way that Israel is singled out, but to use real human rights abuses around the world, particularly by those who are most critical of Israel and dangerous to Israel, to highlight the stark difference between those countries and Israel as the one true democracy in the region that certainly all of us care so deeply about.
So for your average Jewish person in the workplace, in academia, on social media, this can be a very intimidating place to find yourself. And actually, you know, to really feel educated and informed and confident enough to kind of step forwards. You know, especially if you are in a room where there’s sort of casual antisemitism as part of a conversation, you know, where and when and how do you step in? What do you think are some of the actions that an everyday person can take, and what are some resources where you would recommend people go to kind of help them, you know, feel more confident to kind of stand up and express their concerns?
Sure. So a couple of things. The ones I’m most familiar with, obviously, are the ones that we’ve produced. So AJC has a document called Translate Hate. It’s available on translatehate.org. And it’s really helpful not just for people outside of the community who are totally unfamiliar with antisemitism and anti-Semitic tropes, but for so many in our own community to understand how what they’re feeling has a historical context, that there’s pressure that we carry with us on our shoulders because of the history of antisemitism. It helps to define a lot of the terms that get thrown around, as you say, with casual antisemitism and will help empower people to respond to that and explain why what they’re saying is so damaging and why it’s so hurtful and dangerous to the Jewish community. That’s number one. AJC’s Call to Action Against Antisemitism is a document at our website, ajc.org, that we published so that people could understand, again, that this is a societal problem. And I think it’s helpful for those in our community to be able to share some of what’s in it with their businesses for example, with their employers, from the places they work when it gets challenging, and to let them know that they can feel free to reach out to get the kind of training that we talked about before.
They can use it on the university campus. Again, working with our campus operation that works with university presidents and provosts to help ensure that there’s a safe environment on campus. They should feel free to reach out to us to talk through a lot of these issues. But more than anything else, I think the second gentleman’s comments were really spot on. This is a moment where we’re all fighting for the same thing, which is to make sure that we can continue to be proud and openly Jewish in America and around the world. That’s been AJC’s mission for more than 100 years and that’s, at this time, more important than ever. And I welcome the opportunity, Carly, to have this conversation with you, and I’m so grateful to the Shine a Light Campaign for making sure that there’s so many ways for people to engage to really help change the debate, the dialogue, and to take action to keep themselves and our community safe and proud and fiercely supportive of one another, of Israel, of the Jewish people.
Thank you, Ted. So, as a recap, a lot of the resources that Ted has touched on, you can find on the shinealighton.com website. You can also find the AJC Call to Action on ajc.org/call-to-action. And we’ll also send round a number of links. The final session on Shine a Light and Lockdown University will be on gaming, which is taking place next week, and we’ll be highlighting, unfortunately, another growing trend around extremism on gaming platforms, which particularly affects younger members of our community and of the broader community. So that’s where we will go next. Ted, thank you very much for joining us from your hotel room and we wish you a good trip and everyone have a good evening.
Thanks so much for having me.