Trudy Gold
Philip the Fair, the Jews, and Isabella the She-Wolf of France

Trudy Gold - Philip the Fair, the Jews, and Isabella the She-Wolf of France

- Okay, so what I’m going to do, ladies and gentlemen, because I really don’t want to penalise anyone. I can actually run this presentation in two parts because what I’m going to be doing, I’m going to be concentrating on Philip the Fair of France, who was the king from 1258 to 1314. Very important king of France, not just important in French history, but he was the king who expelled both the Jews and the Knights Templars. He was a very religious king and he very much felt that he was doing the work of his grandfather, who of course was Louis IX, known as St. Louis. So what I’m going to do, and maybe you’d, you could work with me on this if you don’t mind, Emily. What I think I’m going to do is to concentrate on how it was that there was such an upswing in anti-Jewish feeling in mediaeval times, which leads to the various expulsions. If we can do that, which means I need you, if you don’t, please, could you go to the slide of the Fourth Lateran Council? That’s right. That is the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215. Now, it’s important to remember that one of the most, I suppose one of the most profound motifs in mediaeval history, and really in the history of Europe, right up until Napoleon and the enlightenment of Napoleon, was the balance of power between the church and the state. Secular rulers always at war with each other, who really commanded in any kingdom. Now, those of you who live in England will know that around London, they’re are the Knights Templars.

There are, there’s Temple Fortune. I’m talking about districts now, where the land was owned by the church where I live is Kilburn Prairie. So much of England was actually owned by the church, and it was always a strong motif back in, which came to the fore in the reign of Henry II. Who is the real power in the world? Is it the Papacy or the church? Is it the Papacy or is it the secular ruler? And also, if you think about the way that society was stratified, what was believed is that when you die, you went to purgatory. In purgatory, your whole life was summed up. And if you’d lived a good life, you could ascend to heaven. If you’d lived a bad life, of course you would burn in hell. And all you have to do is to look at mediaeval depictions of hell. Bearing in mind that the majority of people saw the whole history through picture. Not many people would read and write at this stage. And in fact, the majority who could read and write were the clergy. And the clergy had that gave the clergy an incredible amount of power and it gave the Pope a great amount of power. Remember the Pope, he is Christ’s representative on Earth. There is that line in the gospels where Jesus says to Peter, thou art petros my rock, and upon this rock will I build my church? And this is what happens in Rome, the centre of the Papacy. And even though the Roman Empire had fallen, the Papacy goes on, and the Papacy is labyrinthian in its kind of mechanisms in its power, and it knows very well how to keep power. And the majority of popes are not necessarily pious figures in terms of their saintliness, but what they are is zealous for the Catholic Church. And back in the year 800, the Papacy had done something brilliant. It made Charlemagne, who I referred to a couple of weeks ago, the first Holy Roman Emperor.

And what that meant was that he was the secular arm of the church. But let’s go back to purgatory. How did you buy time out of purgatory by doing good deeds for the church? And what that could mean was going on a crusade, above all it meant going on a crusade. And if you remember from previous lectures, the first crusade of 1096, the people were summoned to take back the Holy Land from whom? The infidel Muslims. And there are going to be eight crusades in Christian history. And that’s a very important because if you went on crusade, you would gain a place in heaven. And not only that, think about why people went on crusade. There was also the financial motive. Many of the people who went were knights, landless knights, and they were allowed to take booty because a war against the heathen, a war against the Moor, a war against the Jew is not war, it’s malicide. It’s the killing of evil. So crusades giving tithes to the church, going on pilgrimages. So in many ways the church had sewn up the afterlife, which meant, and people lived in a religious worldview. It doesn’t really matter whether you were religious or not, and who on earth would speak out against it. The point was you lived this religious life and outwardly that was how it was. Now, ironically, of course the church is going to face heresies, and there are many heresies. It’s really the 13th, the 12th, 13th and 14th century that the church is going to be beset by extraordinary heresy. And it’s also going to try and stamp out any relations between Jews and Muslims and Jews, and Jews, beg your pardon, Christians and Muslims, and Christians and Jews. Keep them as a keep them apart. And the Fourth Lateran Council was actually convened. It was convened in 1215.

And I’m going to read you some a thousand churchmen gathered from all over the Catholic empire, and I’m going, it was convened by Innocent III who is one of the most zealous popes. In fact, Innocent if you, he’s one of the two popes depicted in the, in the marble reliefs above the gallery doors of the House of Representatives, in honour of his influence on the development of American law. So the problem is when you study Jewish history, you are studying inside out history. Because the real point is, as far as the Jews were concerned, this man is seen as a great hero because he wants to weed out corruption in the church. He wanted his monks and his nuns to live far more purer lives. But at the same time, he wanted this separation. He wanted the Jews and the Muslims to be people apart. He didn’t want backsliding into Judaism or into Islam. And also you’ve got to take on, and it’s a very painful thing to take on, but I don’t think you are ever understand antisemitism unless you do, that behind all of this was the notion of the deicide. That’s what made the Jews the most evil group in the world as far as the church was concerned. And tragically, I think we live with the vestiges of it today. There are historians like Hyam Maccoby who will go as far as to say there is a direct progression from the anti-Judaism of the Gospels to the Shoah. Now, that’s a huge indictment, but the point I’m making is this, the whole cultural life of Europe up until the Renaissance was, was really in the, it was in the purview, purvey of the church. All you’ve got to do, those of you who love art, who love architecture, wander around the great cathedrals of Europe, look at the depictions of Jews, look at the depictions of Jesus. And you will see the sort of language that was used about the Jews, the pictorial language, and the fact that the killing of a Jew was known as malicide, which means the killing of the devil. So I’m going to, or the killing of evil.

Let me just read you some extracts from the Fourth Lateran Council. This is Canon 68. Jews and Christians shall wear a special dress to enable them to be distinguished from Christians. So no Christian shall come to marry them, or be ignorant of who they are. Now obviously there was intermarriage, and we know that there was sometimes on a personal level, good relations between Jews and Christians. Look, going back to 911, the church had forbade to Christians. It had taken, it had taken a Levitical law, a Jewish law, and applied it to Christians. By this time, practically every trade and profession in Europe is dominated by Christian guilds. So there were very few ways of earning a living that the Jews could fulfil. So they become the moneylenders of Europe. And also because they are international, they become the merchants of Europe. And obviously on a personal level, there were relationships. Ironically, those of them who made it to India or China, they received a much, much better welcome. And I’ve said this to you before when I’ve lectured on China, it’s ironic that in the year 1000 when there were 40,000 people mainly living in wooden huts in London, there were a million people in Kaifeng where of course the most sophisticated cosmopolitan trading city in the world, the end of the silk route with many, many Jews, many of whom later assimilated. So the the point is, the point is made that it’s in the Christian world and laterally, unfortunately in the Muslim world, that you have this really pronouncement by the church. Now, Innocent in many ways is adored of the Christian world. And if you will read up in the Catholic encyclopaedia, he’s a hero.

Now, this is Canon 69. Jews must never be given performance in public office since it offers them the pretext to vent their wrath against Christians. It would be too absurd for a blasphemer of Christ to exercise power against the Christians. And the count, the Fourth Lateran Council, the points of it, he also institutes the wearing of the Jew badge. Jews and Muslims must wear special dress. And ironically, it was England under Henry III in 1222 at the Council of Oxford. It’s the first country to institute the wearing of the Jew badge. And also this is the pope that establishes the Dominicans, the Dominicans, the hounds of God. And and under the Dominicans, Robert of Redding, who was a Christian cleric who took a Jewish wife, he was burnt at the stake. And in fact, it’s in 1229 again in England, the house of David of Oxford, and the house of Isaac ben Moses were confiscated to provide a domus conversorum. Henry III actually set up a house. Any Jew who decided to convert would be paid for life. I think it was one and a half pennies a day for men, and eight pennies a week for women. And gradually, the church set up more orders, the Franciscans, the Augustinians, the Black Friars, the White Friars, the Grey Friars as they are known. And they were the real people who were going to push the church. They were the people who later on were going to be the major people in the Inquisition. The Inquisition was a device set up to weed out heresy. And the point is, there were many, look, there were many princes and kings who didn’t want the power of the church, who didn’t really believe this terrible line that the church took. But nevertheless, the implacable Catholic Church is going to make it so important. For example, in the south of France, the south of France, well away from the power of the French Kings, not part of the domains of the French kings. There were all sorts of interesting belief systems.

Remember it’s the borderlands between Spain and France. And it for a long time was part of the Muslim Spanish empire. And in those port towns, particularly the port towns of the Mediterranean, Jews, Muslims, Christians, they all lived together. They all lived, they all lived together. And basically they worked together. And it was in that atmosphere that another group developed called the Cathars. Now the Cathars are very, very interesting. And I’m sure many of you would’ve read these kind of, what sort of books are they books by people like Henry Lincoln, books talking about the Holy Grail. Who were the Cathars? They were a group of Christians who believed in piety. They hated the church, they believed that the church was actually evil, and that they believed that the God of this world was a wrong God, and that they called him the Demiurge, and they believed that a greater God of another world and they refused to accept the power of the church. Men and women were given autonomy within the group. Men were not favoured above women. And they were very pious. And they lived very kind of ascetic lives, and they attracted an awful lot of attention in the south of France. Now, particularly in the southwest region, those of you who travel to the south of France. Carcassona, Nabornne, Albi, that’s the region of the Cathars. And next time you travel there, read about the story of the Cathars, and also about the legends of the Holy Grail because it’s fascinating. It doesn’t mean it’s true, but it’s fascinating. But of course the Cathars, and what happens is the church launches a crusade against the Cathars, and it’s the most terrible bloody thing. It’s not just against the Cathars it’s to bring into line the Counts of Toulouse, who rule in that area.

So it’s always a blend of religiosity and of practicality. The church needs to take power over the secular rulers. And of course with, with Pius IX, the King of France, they had the perfect vehicle because Pius IX, who I talked about a couple of weeks ago, I’m going to read to you a letter that was sent to him by Pope Innocent IV. Now Pius IX is the grandfather of Philip the Fair, who Philip the Fair wanted to emulate. So when we get to half past five, I’m going to, I’m really going to turn to Philip the Fair. So those of you who are online early or not early, at the correct time, you’re just getting a bit of extra. So this is a, this is an encyclical by Pope Innocent IV. It’s the 9th of May, 1244 to Louis IX known as Louis the Pious. He goes on crusade, he goes on two crusades, and he actually dies on crusade, and it’s going to be his grandson, Philip the Fair, who has him made into a saint. So let’s read this, and that really gives you the flavour of what I’m talking about. The wicked peripety of the Jews from whose hearts are redeemer has not removed the veil of blindness because of the enormity of their crime, but has so far permitted to remain in blindness such as a measure, such as a measure in covers Israel. Israel does not heed as it should, the fact that Christian piety has received them and patiently allows them to live amongst them through pity. So he’s basically saying they don’t understand, they don’t get the enormity of their crime. And look how wonderful we are to allow them to live amongst us. Instead, they commit such enormities as are stupefying to those who hear them, and horrible to those who tell them for ungrateful to the Lord, Jewish Jesus Christ, who in the abundance of his kindness patiently expects their conversion. They display no shame for their guilt nor reverence for the honour of the Christian faith through throw away everything they despise. Now, this is very important. Listen very carefully. They despise the law of Moses, the prophets, and follow some traditions of their elders. So according to this, they’re actually not the, the Hebrew Bible remember has become the Old Testament.

And it’s fascinating because the Old Testament, as the Christians call it, is turned against the Jews because I’m sure you’ll realise that the Hebrew Bible is the story of a people, wart and all, and they’re backsliding. And this is turned against them by the Papacy on account of these same traditions. The Lord reproves them in the gospel saying, and he’s quoting from Matthew, Matthew 15. Wherefore do you transgress the law of God and render it void because of your tradition teaching doctrines and commands of men in traditions of this sort. They rear and nurture their children whose traditions are called the Talmud. Now this is of course leading to the burning of the Talmud. And last time I talked about how Louis the how Louis IX because of Pope Innocent IV, burnt the Talmud in Paris. There was a trial of the Talmud at this particular period, the 1250, 60, 70s. There were many disputations between Judaism and Christianity. Probably the most famous was in Aragon. As Christianity went on the march against Muslim Spain, King James of Aragon had conquered that region, and he helped, his wife was very religious, Queen Yolandi of Hungary. And he held a disputation where Nachman na Manadi spoke for the Jews. And the trouble was the Jews always had their hands tied behind their backs in these disputations because they were not allowed to make any criticisms of Christianity. And the problem was that the, what the church, what the church sort of said was it’s the Talmud. And in the, in the Talmud of, and I’m quoting again from Innocent IX.

I found blasphemies against God and Christ, entangled fables against the blessed virgin and abusive errors and unheard horrors. But of the law and doctrines of the prophets, they make their sons altogether ignorant. So you hear what you, you realise what they’re saying, that they don’t teach their, they don’t teach Jews the Hebrew Bible, they only teach them the Talmud, which obviously is absolutely rubbish. They fear that it, they fear that if the forbidden truth, which is found in the law and the prophets be understood, and the testimony concerning the only begotten son of God, that he be, that he appeared in the flesh, be furnished, their children would be converted to the faith and humbly return to their redeemer. So basically Innocent is saying that Talmud is the dangerous sport. And ironically it was apostate Jews who were very much behind this kind of thing. They very much, you know, apostate Jews, how on earth do people deal with this kind of hatred? And we know that it’s apostates, it was apostates in the burning of the Talmud under Pius IX, and under Louis IX, I beg your pardon. And it was an apostate in Aragon. Now in fact, Nachmanides had to flee the country because of it. Just as Rabbi Yechiel of Paris had to flee Paris. And there were, and cartloads of Talmuds were burnt. And there are 2 million words in every Talmud. So it gives you a notion of the depth of the Jewish tragedy. It’s interesting, I suppose that one of the questions is why on earth didn’t the Jews convert? Why didn’t they all convert if it was so hostile? And frankly, I think what we can say it’s at this stage, they would’ve been pretty sure that their belief system, their culture was superior to that of Christianity. And I think this is one of the problems and many of them clung to their faith in the, against the most appalling persecutions. So you have this upswing of Christian faith, you also have the story of the Wandering Jew. So it’s really during the first half of the 13th century, right up until the 14th, 15th, 16th century, that Christianity is going to harden against Jews. And frankly they’re going to be kicked out of France finally in 1394.

And that’s the story. But ironically, and this is one of the extraordinary aspects of Jewish history, because surely as you study Jewish history, one of the things you must question is how was it that they’ve survived for 2000 years without a country? And I think one of the reasons was that when the world they were living in became very black, there was always somewhere else to go. And if you think about France and the period I’m going to talk about under Philip the Fair, they’d been expelled from England, and then there’s going to be a huge upswing, and it’s going to culminate in 1348 in the Black Death. Between 1348 and 1354, something like a third of the population of Europe died because of the bubonic plague. Now think of the world, think of malicide, think of the horror of the plague, think of lack of medicine, think of lack of hygiene. Now the Jews, of course were blamed. Was it because as some historians have put forward, many of many of the Jewish communities seem to be avoiding the plague. Well, think about the hygiene laws and the separation. Or was it because the Jews were considered the greatest devils of all? And if there’s this terrible plague, look, in any time of strife, people do not use rationality. They, maybe the Enlightenment tragically is a blip. They don’t use rationality. And in a world where the Jew is considered to be the other, the evil one, the devil, it’s no surprise that they were be blamed for what? Well poisoning. But ironically, it’s at this stage that, and it’s going to also exacerbate, I should mention because of the final expulsions from Spain and France, because Christianity is on the march. And by 1492, the Muslims have been completely defeated in Spain. So there’s the huge exodus from Spain.

So where do they go? They either go to the world of Islam or many of them make it to the east to Poland. And for 350 years, Poland is going to become really the refuge of the Jewish world. So for those of you who have just joined us, and I can see the numbers are going up quite alarmingly. Emily, let me explain what’s happened. The time started at five o'clock today, but it was only announced today. So what I did for those who were here, and I hope you didn’t mind, I’ve given them a note, I’ve given them a little background to what was going on in the Christian church so they understand the upswing of anti-Judaism. And so in about, I’m going to take a one minute break, if that’s all right, Emily, because I can see that many of you are now coming in. Emily, can you actually tell everybody quickly how the times are going to be sorted?

• [Emily] Sure. So moving forward, everything is going to be on the hour for the next, I believe, month or so. And I’m going to pull up right now the official dates, and I will let you know the last lecture we have scheduled that is on the hour. If you give me one moment.

• Can I explain what this is about? This is really about the clocks going back in different countries at different times and we’ve tried very hard to accommodate everyone, but I think the fact that we only announced today that mine was at five o'clock has caused confusion. So with Emily’s agreement, and I hope it doesn’t upset those of you who came on at five o'clock. I actually will lecture til half til half past six tonight. So, I hope that everybody will feel that we’ve covered the subject properly. So I am taking one more minute because I always go on at 15, 17:33 because so many people are coming on, I think they obviously didn’t realise. So can we go back to Philip the Fair, if you don’t mind?

• [Emily] Yes, of course.

• Because remember those of you who’ve been with me in my other lectures on France, this is really the mediaeval background to what’s going to take up quite a lot of our time because of course the French community is so important and France was the first country in the modern period to emancipate the Jews, and yet it’s also the country of the Dreyfus affair, and it’s also the country of Vichy. So we felt that we should give France a lot of attention also because the culture of historians and David, of course with his films and literature, are very happy to be able to cover France because there’s so much meat on this. So David’s asked an interesting question, was rabbinic literature influenced by this? I’m going to, I’m going to leave that because next week I’ve asked Jeremy Rosen to lecture on Rashi and the other great scholars of mediaeval France, and I think he’s going to well answer that question. It’s a big question. Also, the develop Judaism does not have this huge, it has never developed the concept of the afterlife the same way Christianity has. I think it’s important to point out that although Christianity and Judaism on one level stem from one route, they take completely different paths. Pauline Christianity goes in one direction, and the Talmud goes in a completely different direction. Now for those of you who’ve just joined, I was talking about the upswing in church power. I was talking also about the creation of the Franciscans, the Dominicans, and this is the period of church power. And Philip the Fair known as Philip le Bel, Philip IV of France, his dates are 1268 to 1314, he ascends the throne, his grandfather is of course, Louis IX, who I talked about last week.

And it was Louis IX who, his grandson, who he dies. Louis IX dies when Philip the Fair is two years old and he, it is Philip the Fair who worships the memory of his grandfather. And not only that, he actually makes him a saint. He puts pressure on the, on the Papacy to make him a saint. And of course it is Louis IX who brings back to France the crown of thorns of Jesus. So consequently Sainte-Chapelle is built because of that. And of course when Patrick lectures to you, it’s going to be one of the buildings he’s going to talk about. And Patrick and I had a fascinating, I met him for supper on Monday and we had a fascinating conversation, because of course to Patrick, this period of history going right through, which is such a dark time for the Jews, is a glorious time in, if you’re talking about French architecture and later on about French art. In fact, Patrick was telling me about a church in, in the Roman part of Paris, where there is a window, a stained glass window that depicts a very interesting tale of the Jews actually sticking pins in the wafer. And what happens is the wafer flies up to heaven and it then it lands on the earth and they, and they build, that’s when they build Notre Dame. So the Jews are so central tragically to the demonization aspect of Christianity. And I think that’s one of the reasons that we have such a dark history. But on the other hand, it’s also a history of survival. And those of you who’ve joined, for some of you the right time for others late, and I’m going to leave it to you to decide who is right, because frankly, it was only when I checked that I found out it was five o'clock today. So it is for you, this is the problem. Jewish history is often inside out history. And I’m going to quote now to make, I’ve spent half an hour lecturing on this and I’m going to sum it up for those who’ve just joined.

This is Robert Seltzer. The the expulsion and massacres of Jews in the late Middle Ages were a symptom of Jewish vulnerability. In an age of social breakdown, recurrent plague, protracted feudal wars, and economic stagnation. The negative stereotype of the Jew deeply rooted in a European civilization has its own momentum, remaining in people’s minds and folklore. Even when Jews no longer live there. And this is incredibly important. All you have to do really is to think about England. If you think about English literature after the expulsion of the Jews, what happens is you have Chaucer, “The Second Nun’s Tale,” which is the story of the blood libel, which was spreading all over Europe by this time. And then you’ll have Marlowe’s The Jew of Malta, and you’ll have Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice, which I’m not going to argue about as to whether it’s antisemitic. The audience would’ve believed it to be so. So anyway, let me now start by Philip the Fair. He was born in Fontainebleau to the future Philip III, the Bold, and his first wife, Isabel of Aragon, As I said, his grandfather Louis the Pious dies when he was two years old. His father becomes king and his elder brother Louie becomes the heir, so he was not expected to rule. Five months later, his beloved mother falls from a horse and dies. And she’d actually been pregnant with her fifth child. A few months later, one of his younger brothers died. So he experienced quite a lot of tragedy. He was, he’s going to grow up into be an incredibly handsome, very contained, suspicious kind of character. And much of it, those of you who are psychologists, I think much of it had to do with the instability of his early life, because eight months after the death of his mother, Philip married again, and then a few months later another, his elder brother died.

So Philip becomes the heir apparent and it was actually suspected that his brother had been poisoned by his stepmother who just given birth to her first son. However, he and his, another brother, Philip, but his other brother, Charles, beg your pardon, they both survived and went on to have very large families. But he was brought up in an atmosphere of suspicion. He marries Joan of Navarre. Can we go to the next slide, please? Now this is important. It’s important that you understand when I’m talking about France. Now go back to the, I want to see the map please. Thank you. Now that the, if you look at the French royal domain in 1180, it’s very, very small. It’s around Paris and the Ile-de-France. Then have a look at the acquisitions by Philip Augustus, and then have a look at the acquisitions under his descendants, which of course includes Philip the Fair and his sons. And you will see that they gain an awful lot of territory sometimes through war and sometimes through marriage. But it’s nowhere the size of France as we are going to know it later on. Important. And the other important part point to mention is that I’m going to be dealing with this lecture that the English kings are going to lay claim to the throne of France. So I thought it was important that we have a look at this map. And it’s also important to remember that one of the biggest problems that Philip IV faced, was the power of the nobility. The French nobility had an incredible amount of power, and when he becomes king, he’s actually going to use civil servants rather more than the nobility. He’s a very, remember, he’s a very, very suspicious man.

So he marries Joan of Navarre, and evidently it was a love match. And what it brings into his kingdom is Navarre. He becomes King of Navarre, again, the role of women, which I’m going to be talking about, and leadership because France followed Salic law. So no woman could actually rule the kingdom, but so she brings to the marriage her inheritance of Champagne, which is adjacent to the royal domains as well. It greatly expands the kingdom. Navarre is not incorporated into the kingdom, but it’s a personal union. He’s also king of Navarre. So much of his efforts is to curtail the power of the nobility. He’s always going to be in debt. And let’s just have a look at his grandfather. The next slide please. Can we go on please, Emily? Yes, there you see Louis IX of France, he so loved his grandfather who went on crusade. Louis was the most pious of the French kings. We discussed that a couple of weeks ago. So was Philip the Fair. He was a suspicious, hard, austere man. He was also money grabbing, but he saw himself and France saw itself as the really, as the first flower of the Catholic Church. And this is going to go on right up until the 20th century when, and if you think one of the great chasms in France is, is it a secular country? Is it a Catholic country? And those of you who’ve travelled in France will know yes, when you, when you are in Paris, it’s the country of the rights of man, it’s the country of the revolution, it’s the, which was a secular revolution. And then in 1906, the disestablishment of the Catholic Church. But you will also know that those of you who love visiting the tiny little towns and villages, which I do, you will always find on the outskirts, either a shrine to the Virgin Mary or a big crucifix, which shows you just how Catholic France is. Okay. Now, can we go on please?

I mentioned the Fourth Lateran Council, those of you who were not here, and many of you know about the Fourth Lateran Council. This is Innocent. You really taking the power of the church and pushing it. He’s considered one of the greatest popes. Read his biography in the Catholic encyclopaedia. It’s fascinating. It’s really inside out history. And the other point to mention about him of course, he is the man who established the, the setting up of the Jew badge. It wasn’t invented by the Nazis, it was invented by the Catholic Church. And one of the issues that is very problematic even today in Jewish-Christian relations, that I personally believe that the greatest plank that leads to antisemitism, is anti-Judaism. And also the diabolization of the Jew. Sorry, I couldn’t get my tongue around it. I think it’s a very, very important motif. Anyway, so he comes to the throne, he is involved in many wars, particularly with Flanders. His greatest enemy, of course, are the Hapsburgs. Can we come onto the next slide please? And let’s come onto the story of Edward I. And now Edward I is the very strong king of England. Those of you who know your English history will know that he was the king who was the Hammer of the Scots. His son Edward II, is the first Prince of Wales. And those of you who watched the tragic funeral of Queen Elizabeth and the anointing of the new Prince of Wales, it goes back to that period when Edward I anoints his son, Edward II. But Edward I controlled Aquitaine. Now that goes back to the time of Henry II and his marriage to the incredible Eleanor of Aquitaine in the 1140s. Next week and out of of time, I’m afraid because we have to swap lectures around. My daughter, Claudia, who’s written a book on Henry II, is going to talk about that, and his relation. Henry II and Eleanor, and relationship with the Jews.

But the important thing from the point of view of this lecture, is as the Duke of Aquitaine. Edward I was meant to give homage to Philip and his descendants. So, and this was a very, very sore point with the English, particularly as Edward I was an incredibly strong king. He was the hammer of the Scots, he was a tough cookie. So, and also, as far as the Jews are concerned, remember its was Edward the first who is also cousin of Philip the Fair, they’re all interrelated, who’d expelled them in 1290. He was, and he was determined to outdo Edward with whom he’d been at war. He’d been at war with Edward from 1294 to 1303. Now, his attitude, the Jews, much of it came from his own belief system. Remember, he was educated by priests. These were the educators of the time. The first University of Paris was in fact a theological university and one, and he was also very influenced by a theologian called Raymond Lulle, who was a Dominican. And his special task was converting Jews. He was very much involved in missionary work. He’d founded schools for priests to study Hebrew and the Bible so that they could discover the errors of the Jews and help them convert. He actually invented, Lulle invented a philosophical system known as art, which was a type of universalistic logic to prove the truth of Christian doctrine to all faiths and nationalities. He himself had come from a partition family, and he believed that his vision on this earth was to, and his message on this earth was to convert the Muslims and the Jews who should know better.

You’ve got to remember that Christianity is an intense proselytising religion. So Edward I has already expelled the Jews. They had arrived in France. Can we go on to the next stage, please. Right. What happens is, in 1306, the day after Tisha B'Av, which of course, is the memory of the destruction of the temple in Jewish tradition. Tragically, it’s always the date that the enemies of the Jews turn against them. In England, it’s, what’s the date today? It’s the 27th of October. In England in 1290, the edict of expulsion was actually given on Tisha B'Av. And every Jew had to be out of England by the 1st of November, because October the 31st is the night of the demons and the witches. And November the 1st is All Saints’ Day. And there should be no Jews in England on All Saints’ Day. And we know that particular expulsion was particularly horrific because even though, look, the king had robbed them blind by this time, they were more or less penniless. But we know that sea captains who were instructed to allow them to pass in safety, they actually attacked them. They killed them for the gold. They believed they’d swallowed. But a small miserable remnant arrived in France. And now Philip, because he needs money. Remember, the Jews are the money lenders. He’s not, he’s been at war with Flanders. He’s been at war with England. He’s had to devalue the coinage. He hasn’t got enough money. He’s not relying on his mobility for advice. Remember, because too many of them were fractious, particularly those in the South, many of whom were not very religious. They held these incredible courts of courtly love.

Nevertheless, he’s relying on his civil servants and the Jews were the servants of the king. So any debts owing to Jewish money lenders were assumed by the king. And they had, they could now to make the, to placate the people. They could be paid back without interest. And the rest of their possessions were sold off. And of course, that was immediately given to the crown. They were given time to sell off their position, the possessions. It’s reckoned that it affected nearly a hundred thousand people. But by 1311, the last of them had default had departed. They were often delayed in order to collect the debts owed to them so that the money could be transferred to the very avaricious king. Now, ironically, when Philip died in 1314, Louis X who reigned from 1314 to 1316, I’m going to be talking about the sons of Louis later on. He allowed them their readmission because he’s, he believed again, he was a pious king. How can we convert them if we’ve expelled them? And it’s ironic, you know, many of them who made their way to Poland. Bishop Olesnicki, who was the chaplain to King Casimir, he actually warned him. He said, look, Poland is only newly converted. Please don’t allow these devils into the country because they will, you know, they will stop your realm being a truly Christian realm. It’s fascinating because of course the last kingdom in Europe to convert was Lithuania, pagan Lithuania.

So basically Christianity on the march. So Louis X allows them in, really for them to convert, but also it, he needed them in because without them he couldn’t collect any money and he needed money for a campaign in Flanders. So, but the problem was that in the end, this is the end for the Jews and it goes on back forward. And finally, the last expulsion is in 1394. As France increased in size, many Jews fled to that part of France that were not under the rule of the kings. So some of them went into Loraine or Burgundy or Savoy, or even the papal lands in Avignon. Funnily enough, the popes, some of the popes were far more open to the Jews than others. Not innocent obviously, but some of them in one of my favourite popes, Alexander Borgia, who was rumoured to be of Converso stock, much later on when the Jews were expelled from Spain. He actually invited 10,000 of them into Rome. He charged them a lot of money for it. But nevertheless, he was prepared to allow Jews in as were with the Dukes of Ferrara, as were the Medici, who saw how useful they could be. So Louis X actually re-expelled them in 1322. But that’s not the end of Louis and expulsions, and his greed. And I’m now going to mention another extraordinary story. Can we go to the Ile de le Cite, which was the centre of France? Can we just see that map? If you don’t mind? Yeah, that’s the royal palace. That’s where they built the Ile de le Cite. And that shows Saint-Chapelle. Okay? And tragically, some awful things are going to happen on that island.

And now I’m going to turn to another story, the story of the Knights Templars. Now you can read many, many books about it, and I’m hoping at some stage to bring in an expert on the Knights Templars because it is an incredible story. Now, the Knights Templars were actually set up. There’s the Poor Order of the Poor Knights of the Temple of Solomon. They were founded in 1118 by a French noble to protect pilgrims on route to Israel. And originally they were nine of them, the order that was finally recognised by the Pope. And they basically, they visit England, they persuade the King of England, the King of France. And they found temple, they found Templar sites all over France, all over England. In the Council of Troyes, they’re officially recognised as a religious and military order. Now, this is something peculiar to Christianity. You see the Knights of the Cross and the Temple rule, it’s based on the Cistercians. And in 1139, Pope Innocent III, who was a protege of Bernard of Clairvaux, who was an incredibly zealous Christian. He was the man who coined the phrase malicide about the Jews. He declared the knights were only answerable to the Pope. They grew and grew in power. They owned land all over Europe. And for example, I mentioned before in England, they owned Temple Fortune, the Temple Bar in the city, Temple Mead in Bristol, because they were, they became incredibly wealthy. Why? Because they attracted a lot of the nobility. It’s a huge honour to become a Knights Templar. And they had to denote their wealth to the order. Also, they became very, very financially astute and became international bankers.

They were also very courageous in battle. They were forbidden to surrender unless the odds were greater than three to one. I mean, for example, at the Siege of Acre in 1291, they were incredibly, they were incredibly brave. Finally, of course, it falls in 1291. And that is the last Christian stronghold in Muslim hands. They lost their reason. They lost their reason for being, and it begins their fall from grace. Also, it begins the legend of the treasure of the Knights Templars, that was hidden under the, was meant to have been hidden under the Temple of Solomon. And you can read lots and lots of populist books about it. And you can see lots and lots of populist documentaries. I do not believe there’s much truth in it, but it’s a rollicking story. Anyway, Philip the Fair with the aid of the Pope, who was very much in his pocket. Remember he had just created Louis IX a saint. He decides finally the wealth is too tempting. The king is bankrupt. So what he does, he goes against the Knights Templars, he arrests ‘em, they are imprisoned. They’re going to be imprisoned in 1307, and they are going to be held in for 14 years. And they, it’s a period of unspeakable torture. They are accused of all sorts of unspeakable heresies, of sodomy, of proclaiming, of blaspheming the cross, of worshipping the Satan. Any kind of evil thought that would pass through any, the mind of Hieronymus Bosch, they were accused of. And finally their leader, Jacques de Molay.

Can we, Jacques de Molay, can we go onto the next slide please? Their leader, Jacques de Molay, is who confesses under torture. He is finally burnt at the stake very slowly, and he proclaims his innocence. But what happens politically is that’s the money of the Knights Templars. Much of it now passes to the very avaricious Philip le Bel, and the legend of the curse, because the legend is that Philip le Bel is absolutely cursed by the Templars and by the Jews. He is, and in fact, what happens to his house is absolutely a terrible tale. And in order to tell it, and also to look at the role of women, I’m going to turn to his daughter Isabella. The Isabella known as the she-wolf of France. Can we see Isabella? Now this is I find, absolutely fascinating that Isabella, who is the princess of France and becomes the wife of Edward II of England. An incredibly astute, powerful woman is called the she-wolf for being ruthless. And it also gives you a notion of the role of women in mediaeval, early mediaeval and late mediaeval society. And one of the things I’m going to do in my histories of France, I’m going to talk about how women did take power. I’m going to look at some of the mistresses of the kings because this is a time where it’s very, very difficult for women to assume their place. I’ve already told you that when, that when when Philip marries Joan of Navarre, Isabella’s mother, he becomes King of Navarre. She’s not queen of Navarre. So important to remember that. So it’s the role of women I’m also talking about. Now, Isabella, the she-wolf of France, one of the great evil women of both French and British history.

Part of the family that is known as the family of the accursed kings. Philip had negotiated her marriage when she was two years old as a seal of the end of the war with France. Edward I of England, known as Edward Longshanks, had decided with Philip that the two children, Isabella, his daughter and Edward II should marry. And that’s the seal of the agreement. It happens time and time again. Edward, who’d been will widowed by the death of his wife, Eleanor of Castile, also married Philip’s half-sister Margaret of France, sealing the alliance. So heir Edward, who was 15, was betrothed to Isabella. And the marriage doesn’t take place until 1306 when she was 12 years old. Now she comes into a terrible, terrible situation. As far as the Jews are concerned, they’ve been expelled already from England. So this is not Jewish history, but this is to give you a notion of what the Christian mediaeval world was like, and the ruthlessness, and the infighting between kings and nobles. And I think one of the reasons why so many Jews, even though their lives were incredibly harsh, didn’t really want truck with that world. Now, the reality of the court, Edward II was, was dominated by his obsession with his favourite, who was called Piers Gaveston. And before the death of his father, Piers had been banished. Edward II was obviously gay, and of course that was something that was a sin in Christian thought.

So consequently, and Edward I, the great warmonger, he couldn’t cope with it. And when his father died, his first action was to recall his favourite. He elevated him to the earldom of Cornwall. He gave him many privileges. He gave him unprecedented power of the court, which meant that Edward’s nobles really, really resented it. And it it led to the upswing in the power of the nobility. And he’s banished. But by 1311, he returned to celebrate Christmas with the king. Isabella is totally humiliated. Remember she is the daughter of Philip le Bel. She is a very important woman, she is beautiful, she’s incredibly proud. She didn’t, obviously she couldn’t oppose him. For court. And this is what was written by, this is a letter written by a monk to a monk in France. The king loved Galveston more than he loved his wife. However, when she was 18, age 14, she was sent by Edward to be an ambassador at his father’s court. Now she arrives there the day after the execution of Jacques de Molay, and the other Templars on those trumped up charges. And so Paris is in absolute chaos. And it’s also because the king of the, the king of England is meant to pay homage to the King of France. Because remember, he also is Duke of Aquitaine, can Isabella sort it out? So it’s interesting, she goes to the court of her father and it’s at this stage that there is incredible trouble. Can you come to the next slide please? Thank you. They are the sons of Philip the king. Philip, his daughter, and her brothers. Also, the Uncle Valois is there. Now, these three brothers were all married to noble women.

And Isabella accused them all of adultery. That they were all cuckolding their husbands in a tower, adjacent to the royal palace. Philip believed them and the women were arrested. And what happened to them is another story. But what it meant was that her brothers had now have no wives and what will happen to the throne of France? So Isabella is responsible for telling her father about the adultery. At the same time, Isabella has already heard from Thomas of Lancaster. And meanwhile I should mention that there had been a reconciliation between Isabella and Edward II. And they had produced a son. In 1312, Isabella had produced a son and heir, Edward, who later becomes Edward III, and he’s going to lay claim to the throne of France. So what you have to ask yourselves, was Isabella motivated by the fact that she was horrified, that her brother’s wives all had lovers? Who all ended horribly. You can imagine the kind of punishments that were metered out. And in fact, one of the brothers still loved his wife very much, but one of the others was strangled. It’s an extraordinary tale. And there are many, many good, there are many serious books about it, and many other fictions about it if you want to read up. I mean French history, it makes the, it makes all these sort of things like “The Crown” or “Game of Thrones” seem absolutely boring compared to the real story of the kings of France and England. So she’s already had a reconciliation.

That’s one of the reasons that Edward is prepared to send her to France and that she does give birth to three more children. So for a period, Edward and Isabella have a kind of modus vivendi. And it’s, and that’s why he entrusts her with a mission to France. And again, later on in 1317. But meanwhile, Thomas of Lancaster, who was the king’s cousin and leader of the opposition, the aristocrats who thought that the king was weak and useless, wrote to Isabella of informing her that he would always support her and wanted to get rid of Gaveston. Anyway. One thing that also is said about Isabella, even though she was unhappy in her marriage, he did give her a lavish lifestyle. We know that she had 180 people in her retinue. They come, they often moved throughout the country. She was rich in her own right because when the queen mother of France died, the last wife of Edward I, she received some of her estates. She received estates in France and in North Wales and castles, and she received castles in 17 different English counties. So she’s a powerful, formidable woman in her own right. Now by this time, the relationship has completely soured. And Edward has a new favourite, a man called Hugh Despenser. Can we see a picture of Edward II, please?

Yeah, there you see Edward II. And now let’s have a look at Hugh Despenser. He’s the Lord of Glamorgan, and he is the new favourite of the king. And together, he is a very good soldier. And he goes to war with the king against Lancaster. Remember, he’s the leader of the opposition. Lancaster is captured and beheaded. Lancaster’s one of the most important nobility of England. So it was huge conflict, and Despenser torments Isabella, he flaunts his homosexual relationship with the king and he convinced Edward there was a danger of an in invasion of invasion of England by France. And pointed out that Isabella was a very, very dangerous woman. So in September 1324, Edward II, a very weak man, completely under the spell of his lover, sequestered all of Isabella’s estates and curtailed her income and her independence. and to make matters worse and to completely humiliate the princess of France, the daughter of remember the powerful rigid Philip the Fair. She herself was very rigid, very beautiful as well. He had, Despenser had his wife, Eleanor de Clare, installed as housekeeper, and really as a spy of the queen, and was removed and was rumoured be because Isabella is trying to get in touch with the pope to have her marriage annulled. Because what kind of true husband is Edward II. So she realises the danger she’s in and she looks for a champion, and she latches on a man called Roger Mortimer. Can we see the picture of Roger Mortimer, please? Yes. Now Roger Mortimer was a very battle hardened, important nobleman.

He was the Earl of March. He came from a very powerful family. He loathed the Despensers, and he’d actually been incarcerated in the tower because of the previous rebellion. And he becomes, and we know that when he is in the tower, he becomes the queen’s lover. And in 1324, you know, having, if you think about it, she tells on her sister-in-laws, and now she takes the lover herself. She engineers his escape from prison and he flees to the court of her brother Charles. And in England, Isabella’s humiliation, it continues. She’s desperate to escape and it comes unexpectedly. Charles demanded Edward’s presence in France to pay homage for the English territory of Gascony. Remember he has all these titles in France. And Hugh actually Hugh Despenser made a terrible mistake. He told Edward that if would go, he would be, he would be murdered, and why not send Isabella? And it was a terrible, terrible mistake because she sails for France with her household and meets up with her lover. And in terms, and basically her brother sides with her, and her brother, and she convinces her brother to allow her son Edward II, the future Edward III, to come to France to pay homage to him.

So she manages to get her son away from, do you see what’s happened? She can now get her son away from her husband. And he leaves for Paris. He’s accompanied by the Bishop of the Exeter, who is a supporter of Despenser, who insisted she returns. And this is the response. I protest I will not return until this intruder be removed, discarding my marriage garment, I shall assume the roads of widowhood until I am avenged of this pharisee. So she’s basically saying, until my husband gets rid of his lover, I am a widow. And this was in fact was treason. And she now knows that she has to depose Edward. Otherwise she is guilty of treason. And what she does is she and Mortimer, actually set up a government in exile in Paris where she courts all the English expatriates who are disgruntled by Edward II. And she brings may charges against Despenser, so grave that the sources do not mention them by name. You can use your imagination. And the writer, Paul Doherty, actually argues that one of the charges was rape, or that Despenser had raped her. Who knows whether it’s true, but her brother believed her. So she has the support of her son, her brother, the King of France and the Pope. And she resolves to invade England. So September 24th, 1326. Isabella with her lover and her son, invades England. And she is, she’s hailed as a liberator. Edward and his lover are seized. Despenser is immediately executed as a traitor. He’s hung, drawn and quartered. He’s not treated as a nobleman and executed by the sword. And it happens in Hereford market square. I remember when I was visiting Wales, a very English girlfriend of mine, took me to the spot. It’s also the town, by the way, where in the cathedral. you can find the mappa mundi with Jerusalem at the centre, which also shows you how important Jerusalem is to Christendom.

Anyway. But then what about the king? The king was, was imprisoned at Barclay Castle and Edward was installed. He’s in his minority. He’s installed as puppet ruler and with the agreement of parliament, the king is deposed, which means that his staff of office was broken. So he is no longer king. But he was a threat. And he’s placed in the custody of two relatives of Mortimer, Thomas Berkeley and John Maltravers. Now, this is the chronicle, of the Brute Chronicle of the time, describing the murder. And this story is immortalised in Marlowe’s Edward II. It’s Marlowe, of course, who also wrote The Jew of Malta. So important. And of course, remember he’s writing in the reign of Queen Elizabeth and what, so of course, Isabella and Mortimer are going to be seen as completely evil because the sanctity of kingship is destroyed. The king is wholly anointed, remember? And this is what the Chronicle had to say. When the king had gone to bed and was asleep, they went quietly into his chamber and laid a large table on his stomach, and with other men’s help, pressed him down. At this he awoke, and in fear of his life, turned himself upside down. The tyrant’s false traitors took a horn and put it into his fundament as deep as they could, and took a spit of burning copper and put it through the horn into his body, and rolled there in his bowels. So they killed their lord. And nothing was preserved as to the manner of his death, because evidently the queen gave orders that he shouldn’t be harmed. However, there are historians today who argue, who argue that in fact the deposed king may have been secretly smuggled out of England. And he entered a monastery.

So this whole story. There are so many threads to it. Remember it’s 700 years ago. Anyway, with the king dead, Isabella now had control over the boy king and England. But unfortunately hubris takes over. They had huge success. Think about it. Hubris, catharsis, nemesis. Isabella succumbed to greed, a Mortimer succumbed to power. And in 1330, Mortimer ordered that he be obeyed over the king. Rumours were were abounding that he, that he intended to take the throne. And it’s at this stage, the young Edward III acted. The lovers were arrested. They’re sent to Nottingham Castle and Isabella evidently cried out according to the Chronicles, fair son, have pity on gentle Mortimer. but he was placed under guard and no mercy for Mortimer. He was hanged naked at Tyburn. Again, he was not treated with the dignity of a noble. Isabella, remember, she is the mother of the king. She survives another three decades until August, 1358. By which time her son is embroiled in the Hundred Years War. Because what happens is this. Because of Isabella, none of the sons have heirs. Well, one has one, but he dies as a child. So there is no legitimate male heir. So the throne passes to the House of Philip the Fair’s brother, the Valois. But Edward III, England doesn’t have Salic law.

Edward III claims the throne of France. So as a result of that, this is the beginnings of the Hundred Years War. So that’s why I wanted to tell the story of Isabella. For many reasons. Number one, the role of women and how they could operate in mediaeval society. The importance of the Hundred Years War, and also the story of the Jews, which is interwoven, but is an aside of history. And in fact, don’t forget that Marlowe, who wrote the Jew of Malta in Elizabeth’s time, also wrote, who wrote Edward II. The Jew of Malta is the story. The Jew Barabbas is the devil. And ironically, it’s probably based on the, on a parody of a real character, a man called the Duke of Naxos. An extraordinary Converso Jew of the house of Mendes who was advisor to the Sultan, and one of the richest men in the world, who was given the island of Naxos by the Sultan and given land in Tiberius with his aunt Gracia for settlement. So Isabella’s life has two more twists. She was buried in the same church of Mortimer with the heart of Edward II in her coffin. Or was it Edward II? So I’m going to stop there, and I’m sorry about the muddle. Anyway, let’s have a look at the questions.

Q&A and Comments:

Oh, Sarah’s thanking me. Thank you.

Q: What is a saint made by the church in the pecking order of the hierarchy of the church?

A: Yes, if you are a, if you are made a saint, you automatically, you don’t have to spend any time in purgatory. You automatically are sent to heaven. In fact, those of you who love literature, and Claudia’s going to be talking about heaven in the second. If you think of Thomas Becket, who was Archbishop of Canterbury, who was martyred, that meant he deliberately, that meant he automatically ascended to heaven. Now this is fascinating because there is even the theory that Thomas Becket deliberately sought martyrdom. This is the religious worldview because then you inherit God’s kingdom forever.

Oh, I love it. Hilton’s saying, we brought the plague and now we bring the Covid. The world doesn’t change. Yes it does, actually. I must tell you, we now have a Hindu prime minister of England who said the most lovely, of Britain, I should say, beg your pardon, who said the most beautiful things about Israel and don’t. And not every Gentile is our enemy. All I said, and I’ve got to be very careful here because frankly, when I study the Shoah, too much. I also become a trifle paranoid. What I would say to you is that unfortunately, this negative element in Christianity does not disappear even when society becomes more secular. Thank you.

The name is Cathar. Sorry, thank you, David. K-A-T-H-A-R-S. It’s really worth looking them up. That whole region. Those of you who love history, I’m sure many of you know a lot about this, that whole region of southwest France, it was a period of much freedom, remember. There was also the story of Septimania, which I talked about a couple of weeks ago.

Oh, the two gods of the Cathars. Okay, Erica. Basically, they believe that the god of this world was an evil god, and there is a much greater God of justice. And what they really hated was the Catholic Church and the Pope. Why did Edward I’s nose look so strange in the portrait? You know, I haven’t looked. I must check. Thank you.

Rod, your description of Christianity as an intense proselytising religion would better be described as inhuman, proselytising religion. Look, this is a problem. To a religious Christian. If you baptise, you save someone’s soul. That’s what the missionary movement was all about. The Chinese hated missionaries because they thought it was rude. I mean, I’m not being funny. That was the expression used to me by the Chinese ambassador when we talked about this. But they believed they were saving souls.

It’s ironic that Jews were allowed into countries. The countries did well, but Jews are still hated. Look, Arlene, let me say, if we get it, go into an economically more even time, prejudice will sink. I really believe that. It’s just that when times are hard, history teaches us that we look for the scapegoat. And there are many, many different kinds of scapegoats. But I think the problem with the Jew is it’s this notion of power. All you have to do, if you think rationally, I would suggest to you the Shoah is the greatest example of powerlessness in history. And yet, and yet they still think Jews have power. It doesn’t go away. What I think, if you want my solution, all we’ve got to do is educate our own people. As long as our own people know, they’re going to have the strength to be able to stand up against it. Because I know what’s happening in American and British and Canadian universities. They’re the only ones I can speak for. And we really have a duty to it, to in, to educate our own children. I don’t mean propagandise, I mean educate. They’ve, one of the problems that I find fascinating is that the majority of Jews are very well educated. And I’m not speaking about the Israelis here, because obviously they do study Jewish history at school. And at university, but in the main, the majority of Jews do not study Jewish history, even in Jewish schools in England, which I think is a terrible problem.

This is from Gene. My understanding of the Knights Templar, from my visit to Malta, the oldest son, was to inherit the land when the father needed to get the next sons out of the way to protect them usurping the inheritance. Or they ship the younger sons to the Templars or similar groups. Yes, because land was always devolved on one son. That was one reason. But some joined out of piety, and the order became incredibly rich. Yes, it was one son. You know, if you had three or four sons. If you think of Henry II, John was landless. You know, one son goes to, the inherits, the second son goes to the church, the third son to the army, but no land. What do you do? The hollow crown, by Faye is saying, it’s a great period. Yes. How did women crow?

Q: Shelly, why couldn’t Isabella’s brothers marry other women after wives were accused of adultery?

A: Because it took time to, it took time. And one of them was still in love with his wife. In the end, one gave birth, but it was, it was a girl. And then the sons all died. They are the accursed kings. There is a very good French series called “The Accursed Kings.” I believe it’s only in French. My French pronunciation is appalling, by the way. I always apologise. Yes, somebody’s brought it up. Yes, the French series, “The Accursed Kings.” I believe you can get it on YouTube, and it’s subtitled into English. But be careful. It’s not fact. It’s factual, but it’s interesting. It feels currently the way the 1930s must have felt to my Jewish parents in Hungary.

Mickey, I don’t want to frighten you. I don’t think so. There are many, many different factors. To start with, there is the, there is the modern state of Israel, and Israel has allies. And you’ve got to remember, Israel is a very, very powerful nation. You know, there’s a very, very, quote, famous quote of Isaiah Berlin’s. He said, on the subject of antisemitism, before the war, we were insomniac, we were sleepwalks. Now we are insomniacs. So I must get that round the right way because of what happened to us, of course, we have a right to be paranoid. He even says that. But look, it’s not, look, it’s uncomfortable, but the question you have to ask yourself, I think it becomes dangerous when there are certain things you can’t do because you are a Jew. And in England, it’s certainly nowhere near that level. But we always have to be vigilant because tragically, and I’m going to stick my neck out here because I know there are many, many other victim groups. I still think that we are the preferred state scapegoat. And unfortunately we’re often, and I am sticking my neck out because I, but I believe it. I think we’re often the state scapegoat of other victim groups, which makes me very, very cross.

Well, thank you Harriet. Yes. Why does the scapegoat not convert to Christianity, or at least another religion? Maybe because they, if they’re a religious Jew, I think they’ve got no choices, because they believe that is their path. And also secular Jews. Why, why would I, I am not a religious person. Why would I convert out my tradition and heritage? I come from a tragic history, but I also come from a glorious history, and I’m proud of being a Jew. I think you don’t forget, also, we’ve got a very, it’s not just tragedy, Jewish history. Look, do you remember a few weeks ago I was talking about the Radhanites? If you think we have been everywhere, we have seen every civilization. I’m going to find, if you can bare with me, I’m going to try and find a quote of Lloyd George’s, which somebody sent me a while back. Bear with me because I’m going to have to go to my other, I’m going to have to go to, yeah. Bear with me 'cause it’s worth it.

Yeah, this is, this is David Lloyd George, who was Prime Minister. You may see you have been oppressed and persecuted. That has been your power. You’ve been hammered into very fine steel and that is why you have never been broken. You know, Jews have got a fascinating path in the world. I mean, even Zionism, that’s not necessarily the end of the story of the Jews. I mean, we have been hammered into fine steel. Look, most Jews just go through life living their lives as, as best they can. That’s what most of us want to do. But out of our number, people who change the world, sometimes for the goods, sometimes from the bad. You see, I am, I do happen to believe in Jewish destiny. So for me, it’s not even an option.

Beverly’s saying the difference is now we have a lifeboat. Yeah. I’ll tell you a very funny story on the subject of lifeboats. When Jeremy Corbyn, when we thought that Jeremy Corbyn might, may become, might become Prime Minister of Britain, a lot of us became very, very frightened. And I was in Israel and I happened to be at a supper party. And an ex-Israeli military man said to me, don’t worry, this time the planes will be there. And I know it sounds as a joke, but in a way Israel has altered the balance. Ironically though, and I think this is the tragedy, and I’m not in any way making any judgments on Israel and its politics. I’m talking about the existence of the state of Israel. In many ways it’s exacerbated the problem because now it’s kind of become the crucible of hostility. They can’t hate our, you know, officially, you can’t hate the religion, you can’t hate the race. Officially, races don’t exist. So hate the nation. That was Jonathan Sacks’ idea. And let me be careful. I mean, I’ve just given you a very passionate lecture. I do not believe that every Christian is our enemy. Of course they’re not. I actually, you know, I have good dialogue with a lot of people of Christian faith. I also have dialogue with a lot of secular people who were of the Christian tradition and many of my close, it sounds awful, many of my closest friends are, but they are. But on the whole, because of my work, they have to prove themselves to me. So what can I say?

Anyway, I think that’s enough, don’t you? The numbers are going down, and I think we’ve solved the problem. I’m exhausted. You know, so should we stop there, Emily?

Right, take care of everybody.