Professor David Peimer
The Marx Brothers and Jewish Humour: Genius and Outsider
Professor David Peimer - The Marx Brothers and Jewish Humour: Genius and Outsider
- Before you begin, that this is our last session of 2023, as we move into 2024, it’s just, it’s hard to believe that. And David, I just want to thank you so much for all that you’ve done for Lockdown University. Actually, I went to the Marie Street Shul last night and so many people came up to me and said, “Lockdown University, how amazing.” They mentioned you, they mentioned Trudy, they mentioned all our faculty. And I just want to say thank you to all our faculty and to all of you who are listening. And here today, I just want to wish you a happy, healthy 2024. Want to thank you for being such loyal participants, ‘cause without you, we wouldn’t be going. And we just have to pray that we find the peace in 2024, and we find a collective way of moving forward together. Because the last few months certainly have been very shocking for Israel and for the Middle East, for everybody in the Middle East, actually, absolutely shocking, and the rest of the world. So let’s pray for peace and a better 2024, and thank you to everyone, so over to you. Let’s look for some, back to the Marx Brothers,
The Marx Brothers. Wendy, if I can just echo what you’ve said, you know, very briefly, thank you Wendy, so much, for your incredible leadership and wisdom and guidance and amazing support. Thank you for everything you’ve set up, but you know, for myself and everybody else, and the faculty, and I’m sure participants everywhere. And just yeah, massive thank you in these terrible times. But you know, the inspiration that you’ve given us all has been really just fantastic. So deepest-
Thank you.
Love and thanks, and to you-
I thank you, David.
And thank you, and to you-
Is Emily, who’s on this-
Emily as well.
Emily and our back team. Our back team, thank you.
Emily is, yeah exactly. And to thank you to Emily and the team, and also just to wish everybody a, let’s hope a better 2024. And as you said Wendy, just a prayer, you know, to hope, you know, in terms of what will happen in the future for everybody, in the Middle East, Israel, everywhere, and just thoughts. So in the spirit of understanding that, and in times of terrible adversity for so many and so many people’s cousins, relations everywhere, and obviously in Israel. So an idea for this today, basically to look at the Marx Brothers and to celebrate their wit, their brilliance, for me their genius, their comic brilliance, and obviously their Jewish identity. And how for me, the Jewish identity is what inspires so much of their intelligence, their wit, their understanding of how to make comedy, the understanding of how to make such enduring and lasting pieces. So I want to look at this remarkable bunch of guys. And you know, a couple of maybe, a couple of expected scenes from some of the films that everybody knows well, “A Night at the Opera”, “Duck Soup” and others, and one or two little pieces which, you know, people may not know that well in addition, as part of, you know, a look at, of a different kind of this part of the American century that we’re all looking at historically at the moment. So I purposely didn’t put a name up, which I usually would, and the dates, because these are so iconic and so well known that it needs no introduction and no saying, except I’ve always loved this picture, because there’s something very filmic, but also, it’s something very personal in this picture as well, of the guys. And you start to get a sense of who they really were as human beings and brothers before their film personas.
Okay, I’m going to focus today entirely on, not on the biography and their lives and the past, which I’m sure many people know a lot about, but basically how their Jewish identity for me links to their remarkable wit and humour that they created, and then to look at some of the examples of their comic brilliance. So that’s the primary focus for today. And not much of a biography, because we just wouldn’t be able to, you know, cover all of it. If we can go on to the next slide please, Emily. This is an amazing picture for me. This is the Marx Brothers family in 1915, New York City. And starting on the left of the screen is of course, Groucho, look how young. And you can see this is the family picture, which I think just speaks volumes. The commitment to the family, the brothers who stayed together for so long, working together, everything. You know, so often it can be a rift. So Groucho on the left, then next to him is Gummo. And then of course, the matriarch of all, Minnie. And I’m sure many know, many participants will know, that Minnie Marx is probably the pillar of strength, a lot of the drive, the ambition, the sense of performance and entertainment and wit, you know, that helped inspire all her remarkable sons. That’s Minnie in the middle, and then next to her is, the young one is Zeppo of course, and then Sam, Frenchie, and then Chico. And then right at the end on our right hand side is Young Harpo. So it just, I love this picture because it’s, you know, you see the family, you see the humans. And then of course we know the film personas, which they created so magnificently.
Okay, if we can go to the next slide, please. So from Groucho on the left hand side there, this is a Groucho, and I couldn’t get this picture to be upright. So anyway, I thought it’s a classic Groucho picture, but it’s so, you see the manufactured persona for the stage and for film. You know, obviously the cigar, the moustache, there’s the glasses, the hair, the jacket. You know, everything is thought through, you know? In as much detail, if not more, as Charlie Chaplin, and many of the great, great comics of the last century. So it’s all thought through. We’ve gone from that previous picture to this image. And then of course we know the classic images of Chico and Harpo in particular. Okay, if we can go back to the previous one? Thank you, okay. After this, I’m going to start sharing some film clips. Just a couple of thoughts before, which is about the Jewish identity, and linked to how, for me, this really informs their remarkable wit and comic genius. They didn’t grow up on the Lower East Side, nor in the Bronx, and it’s important because they grew up in Yorkville, which I’m sure many people know, on the Upper East side. And in fact, Germans and other nationalities were in by far the majority, and Jewish people in the minority. So for me, it’s almost, okay, is it better? Yeah. So for me, it’s almost a outsider within an outsider context.
They’re already outsider, immigrant family, of course, with all the ideas and discussions about immigrants, that you know, we’ve spoken about before, but also within their own little area that they’re growing up in as young boys, they are outsiders within that little environment. It’s predominantly German, partly Irish, et cetera. So it’s a double outsider, if you like. And of course, the whole sense of immigrant, which is filled with different ideas at this time. I think for me, in terms of the outsider, it’s the sense of the opportunity, the dream, the hope, the wish, the drive, I think driven by their mom Minnie, and of course themselves, and what they have to overcome as the children of immigrant family, and Jewish and in New York. And also, so on the one hand, there’s in a sense, the dream and opportunity. On the other hand, the tough day-to-day reality, you know? Of how to make a living, how to put bread on the table, how to get by and what they’re going to do. Become entertainers and earn a living? You know, it’s all these fascinating questions around the idea of immigrant outsider, of course. But inside of them is such a drive and ambition, which I think is often underestimated in terms of them, is more well-known perhaps about Charlie Chaplin and others.
Groucho, I think a couple of important points, which is that is only one time in all the films they made, only once, do they mention any word that vaguely relates to Hebrew or Yiddish or any of the, let’s call it the languages Jewish immigrants might have used then, and that’s the word which is used once in “Animal Crackers”, that’s it. The word Jew or Jewish is not mentioned once in any of their movies, and that’s extraordinary. In other words, they’re not using their religion to make humour, and that’s an amazing thing, I think. When you think of so many comics of today, and so many comedians and others, they have to use some aspect of their religion. But for these guys not, not once in any of their films. And there are different debates from different scholars. Why? Partly of course, it’s obvious they wanted to reach as broad an audience as possible. Partly perhaps, they were a little concerned if they did, would it take off, wouldn’t it take off? And of course, the antisemitism. That was pretty rampant, you know, in the world of course. I mean, I don’t want to compare it to now at all. I don’t believe these things are valid for now, but you know, we’ve got to see this as a context in which they’re their movies, and yet they don’t mention Jewishness. They don’t tell any of the eternal Jewish mother-in-law jokes or Jewish mother jokes in any of their big works. And yet there are virtually synonymous with Jewish humour. It’s an extraordinary paradox for me.
So most people, I think, and most scholars, and people in comedy or in the theatre world, battle to explain what is it that makes them Jewish, because they are so, but none of this is actually used. And what it means for me is that, of course, Jewish humour goes way deeper than just mentioning, you know, mother-in-law jokes or Jewish mama jokes, or mentioning even the word Jewish, or any links to that in the verbal dexterity of their humour. There’s no mention of God, or any other celestial dictator for that matter. So there’s no mention of any God or any other religion. It’s quite an extraordinary thing. And Groucho much later said that they purposely did not want to mention any of that, because it was too obvious, too literal. Yes, partly they wanted to reach as broad an audience as possible, but for them humour was human nature, obviously coming from a very strong sense of Jewish identity, and Jewish roots and upbringing. So it’s a very different kind of approach, not better or worse necessarily, but quite a unique approach to making the humour. There’s been a recent book, interestingly, published by Yale University Press, by a fascinating scholar, Lee Siegel, 2019, which is called “Groucho Marx: Comedy of Existence”. And his interesting, very contemporary 2019 argument is that so many of these Jewish comics in New York and in America specifically, come from a sense of a weak father or a weak paternal figure and a strong maternal figure. Is that accurate or not?
It’s an interesting idea, I think, that Lee Siegel suggests, and he even goes into the example of obviously of Isaac, you know, who in Jewish scriptures, and you know, Abraham and Isaac, and sacrifice your son for Yahweh, for God, et cetera. And you know, so the father figure, in a Freudian sense, of God, compared to the real Father Abraham, the weak father being able to stand up, it’s yeah. I mean, he uses this as an example. I throw this out because it’s a debate, no right or wrong, For me, there is something more. There’s obviously the ingenious wordplay, there’s the punning, there’s the double entendres. I think that it’s the anxiety of the outsider more than the anxiety of the son and the weak father, that Lee Siegel interestingly and fascinatingly proposes. So I think it’s for me, and but of course, and Lee Siegel talks about it in his book, where there’s an insolence, an attitude, towards convention and authority, which is a very typically Jewish one, especially for the immigrant culture. A desire to be part of it, but also a desire to savagely satirise and ridicule it at the same time. And that I agree with, and that’s obviously part of Jewish humour. It’s part of any immigrant or many immigrant cultures that would’ve come into New York and America at the time. So it is not his only idea, it’s about the father, but many others also. What do we have? We have Harpo who handles the slapstick. He never speaks once in any of the films. It’s a brilliant choice. It’s such a brilliant choice compared to Groucho, of course, who has all the witty, brilliant one-liners, or so many of them.
So Harpo is the slapstick, very physically, and if you look carefully, very physically demanding, you know, he’s as fit as chaplain. Then there’s Chico, who’s for me, a little bit between Harpo’s physicality and Groucho’s vitriolic sarcasm. He’s always Harpo’s partner in crime, Chico. But he’s always quick to throw anyone under the bus when it suits his own purpose. There’s one point in one of the movies where he says to Harpo, “Well, I’d kill you for your money.” “Ha ha ha, no, no, no, you’re my friend.” “Well, I’d kill you for nothing.” They’re constantly playing on, you know, that we’re close, that we are not close. And Chico combines the physicality and obviously the music, but the physicality of Harpo with some of the verbal virtuosity and wit of Groucho. And then of course, Groucho, you know, the sanity clause, other things. Groucho is built on insult. It’s built on subversion, the brilliant one-liners. And it’s an intellectual, an intelligent wit. So it’s a fantastic contrast of the three main brothers to make the, for me, very Jewish humour, from the intellectual to the physical, to the one who’s in between. And they’ll throw anyone under the bus but, push come to shove, they won’t, they’ll always stick together, because ultimately they are Jewish outsiders. Ultimately, they know they are brothers, and they are of an outsider group and an outsider class who cannot belong, get into the centre, you know, of let’s call it, of a more WASP America, if you like. They know in, in Hannah Arendt’s phrase, “They are the pariah and the parvenu.”
They’re the pariah, just because of who they are, and their birth, and they’re parvenu, because they are upstarts who make good. And those two words are Hannah Arendt’s, and I think they’re accurate describing many Jewish people, you know, of all these times, and especially in immigrant culture. Some of Groucho’s great lines, “I never forget a face. But in your case, I’d be glad to make an exception.” “I’ve had a perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn’t it.” And in a great little bit of dialogue with Mrs. Teasdale, where she says, “I was with my husband until the very end,” at the funeral or the death, and Groucho says, “Oh, no wonder he passed away.” Mrs. Teasdale, “I held him in my arms and kissed him.” Groucho, “Oh I see, then it was murder.” He’s never at a loss to not only give the witty one-liner, but to top the previous comment of the previous person. Intellectual sparring brilliance. Tom Stoppard does it in theatre, Shakespeare obviously, and so many, many others, in the service of great comedy and wit. And how crucial insult is, insult of a particular kind and tone. Rowan Atkinson gave a brilliant speech a while ago where he said, “You can’t have comedy unless you insult somebody or offend some people,” who may or may not be but, and it’s the way you insult, of course. And it’s John Cleese, Rowan Atkinson, they’ve all spoken and written about it, the great comics. And you go way back to Aristophanes, two and a half thousand years ago, the great ancient Greek who began what became known as satire in theatre and performance.
You know, basically it was all the same. And interestingly in ancient Greece, for those two or three weeks of the Festival of Dionysus, where they performed all their pieces, they were allowed to satirise, and therefore the word ridicule comes in. They were allowed to ridicule any political, any religious, any leader of any kind in those two to three weeks of the Festival of Dionysus, when all the plays were performed. It was part of Greek law in this remarkable period, two and a half thousand years ago. And in fact, the leaders would sit in the front row and laugh and enjoy being completely ridiculed by Aristophanes and other satirical writers. It was part of the confidence of a culture that could accept it. So the intelligence, of course, is they take ordinary situations, like going to the opera, or serious situations, like starting a war in “Duck Soup”, and of course undermine them. But I want to suggest that, undermine it in a way that is not grotesquely insulting. It’s so witty in the insult, that it’s their way of doing it that is so brilliant. And as I said, they don’t resort to certain types of humour, which are so common, or have been in, you know, post-Second World War, or in the last decades. Never did they use any religion as material for their routines. Of course they, from 1929, all the way through the 1920s, all the way through to, you know, obviously after the war. For me, as I say, it’s the outsider perspective. Even through the Great Depression, they continued working, working, working, deceptively brilliantly, not just ad lib. Through Vaudeville, the Broadway stage, the emerging talkie films, and how they completely used it, milked it fantastically.
The Great Depression, despair and hope, in the early '30s after it, and yet they continue with it. Unemployment, crime, the Dust Bowl time, racial strife, this growing threat of fascism after the Great Depression, going into the early '30s, they continue to make humour. And of course, it’s the old debate of assimilate or not assimilate, and they play this out without making a meal of their origins, which everybody knows that, of course they, New York Jewish immigrant family, and I think that’s part of their genius. They can be ironic and paradoxical without having to be so literal, in your face about it, in a way. And of course, the accent that Groucho chooses. And of course, it’s an accent with some of the Jewish and Yiddish, you know, tones in it as well. So it’s inside it somewhere. Chico speaks as an Italian, part of the Italian immigrant world, is trying to capture, because of course they were friends with some Italian boys when they were kids. So they assumed accents of the small immigrant groups of the culture that they grew up and knew, and which would’ve been so much part of the immigrant explosion through through America. And a way of connecting obviously, to a much bigger audience as well. So in a way, Groucho’s character is permanent in this very small minority group experience. In a sense, his character, we know that he’s really incapable of social mobility.
His connections to the institutions that serve the elite, like opera, health spa, the state, university, are never going to be permanent. It’s in his accent, his dress, his clothing, the eccentric way he walks, the eccentric way of playing the piano by Chico, they all punctuate roles of the outsider where they’re trying to fit in, but even through their costumes and through the way they walk and move, they can never belong to the truly centre ruling group of the society they live in. And that is the outsider thing always, and so much great humour comes from that. And for me, it’s obviously the Jewish outsider. Groucho’s character is the hinge in the films. He connects the world of these small little groups of the outsider to the outside, powerful world of wealth and privilege of America. He’s literate, he knows the secrets of wealth, he knows obviously the reality of poverty, and he’s a bit educated. So he is only way to not only survive, but to make it, is to be a charmer, a conman, a shyster, a bit of a player, a conman I think is the best. And David Mamet uses this brilliantly in later plays as well. This kind of fantastic character who goes way back to ancient Greek theatre, to “Don Quixote”. It’s the sidekick who is actually much smarter than anybody else. But here, of course, he’s the central character, the trickster. And it’s a dislocated intellectual that Groucho captures for me, which of course, Norman Lebrecht and others capture in their book, “Genius and Anxiety”, about Jewish history and Jewish people of a particular period. The dislocated intellectual, obviously there’s the wandering rootless Jewish person, obviously it’s inside Groucho and the others, and we make the connections without us being told.
Traditional society in Eastern Europe, Central Europe changed, and immigrants coming. We just have to imagine this world. Religious and ideological and economic and technological change happening so fast. And they’re trying to find and forge a new way of making humour about it all, and embracing one of the most new technologies, which is the talking film, of course. Disconnected, dislocated from the shtetl, from traditional religious belief, living by their wits, learn how to survive and make it. The parvenu learn how to make it in the New World. That’s the character, and I can see so many people, not only in America but globally, identifying with the Groucho one in particular, you know, and of course the others as well. It’s the ruthless intellectual, reject the past and seek a way to belong in the New World, dominated by, you know, obviously, other people from different groups. Obviously Groucho appeals to Woody Allen, and to many, many others that we all know. Let’s look at the idea of insult. And because the insult in Groucho is so well crafted, as I said, not to be grotesque, delivered in a very soft, deadpan way, to insult those who exclude him from the world of prestige and privilege. Those are the ones he really insults. Anyone with power or privilege, you know, the insults come in, but they’re so clever and witty and they turn the phrase that we all love.
Look at the characters’ names of Groucho. Otis B. Driftwood, Rufus T. Firefly, Dr. Hugo Z. Hackenbush, Wolf J. Flywheel, J. Cheever Loophole. I mean, they’re ridiculous and fun names. It’s almost like they come out of Dickens, in a way, but they’re fun. Driftwood, Firefly, Wolf, you know, Flywheel, Wolf J. Flywheel, it’s all characters in transience. There’s nothing permanent. It’s a very transient, insecure world, that they’ve got to try and find a way to make it, to belong to, to adapt, and get and fit into in some way. So for me, for all these reasons, it’s a fascinating world that they’re trying to, that Groucho embodies in a way. Obviously he embodies the ruthless intellectual who’s operating on the periphery of society, but eager to take advantage of what the New World society can offer, and look for the loopholes. J. Cheever Loophole, it’s the name of the character. Look for the loopholes, look for the angle, look for the opportunity to make it, take a risk, take a chance, come on. You know, it’s beautifully American and it’s beautifully a Jewish survival. “Come on,” you know like, find the way, find the quick way to find a way in, and do it without malice, without real malice or harming, or really hurting anybody. So he’s obviously the pariah, not, that’s the parvenu description before, the pariah, but he has to use shady channels to make it. He’s a shyster talent agent for the opera, horse doctor, prime minister, college president. He’s constantly acting out all these other roles to try and, you know, not only to satirise and ridicule, but you know, to find a loophole in.
So he demystifies so many notions of success and how to get there, through comedy. He’s the eternal outcast, with a disdain for the elite and for conventional behaviour, and we love it, because all of us will want to, all of us at times have felt, “God, we can’t bear this bureaucracy, or the power of the elite,” or you know, whatever. And you know, the disdain, but not just anger. It’s using wit to find a way in it and through it, and ironically then become part of it, to a degree. I’ve spoken about, I think, the influence of their mother Minnie. She was the daughter of central European Jewish entertainers who immigrated to America in 1870s. Minnie’s father was a magician and a ventriloquist, and her mother was a harpist. The connection’s obvious. Minnie was their manager. She booked the acts, she wrote some of the early scenes. She even was sometimes a cast member, some of the very early Vaudeville skits that they did between 1909 and 1925. And many, many people who’ve written about the Marx brothers credit Minnie for their early success. Their humour, the humour spares no image, it spares no institution, and the opera is chosen for an obvious reason, you know? It’s sort of the stereotype of the elite art form. They’re at the races, well it’s the races, obviously.
“Duck Soup”, about a war, you know? So it’s all there, nothing is excluded. Everything can be up for grabs to be satirised and ridiculed. And that’s the core of a comedian, and of great, great satire. You cannot have satire, obviously, without ridiculing, and confident societies will always have their high power corner, where people can say whatever, almost whatever, and those that they are ridiculing can enjoy and laugh at it as well, I think. So, and many, many other quotes. I want to quote from Proverbs 17:22, which is a bit unlike me quoting from Proverbs, but, “A joyful heart is good medicine, but a broken spirit dries up the bones.” I’ve always loved, it’s a stunning, poetic phrase from Proverbs for me. The other interesting thing is the language, is that Chico, and of course Harpo doesn’t speak at all, but all immigrants of course have got a new language to deal with, English, and Chico playing the Italian, and Groucho obviously the brilliant intellectual wit in English, but Chico is the Italian. It’s fascinating the way of misunderstanding, miscommunication through language, because of course they’ve got to learn a new language, English. Whether it was whatever, you know, the language they came from before, Yiddish, or mixtures of languages, it’s part of the immigrant, of the remarkable American experience of these times. “Time” magazine in the 1970s, they did a survey, it’s not scientific, but they did a survey.
And in “Time” magazine, they noted that 80% of American comedians, they thought, were of Jewish origin, when Jews of course comprised less than 3% of the American population. Adversity over wit, a form of courage over adversity. You know, the Jewish humour coming back, to me, the role of this kind of an outsider here. Freud interestingly, Freud wrote a fascinating sentence for me about what is Jewish humour, and he refers to the idea of self-deprecation. And Freud wrote that he, I’m quoting, he, “Did not know whether there are many other instances of a people making fun to such a degree of its own character,” Freud. He did not know, quote, “whether there are many other instances of a people who make so much fun to such a degree of its own character.” And I find that a fascinating insight of Freud, you know, and I think accurate, and the figures, the numbers, certainly for his times, bear it out. There’s a professor Arie Sover, who wrote a fantastic, a very interesting book, “Survival and Wisdom”, about Jewish history and Jewish identity, and she talks about how Jews laugh at themselves, and I’m quoting. “Jewish people laugh at themselves like no other nation does.” And she goes on, sorry, Professor Arie Sover goes on, about the self-deprecating humour, the level of depth and the wit that comes out of it, the self-deprecating notion. And Sover links it to the constant antisemitism, of course, the tragic history in the past of Jewish people, but laugh at yourself. And Sover goes on to write, “If you laugh at yourself in a bad situation, you psychologically take yourself out of the situation, and can look at yourself as a spectator while you are in it also, and that helps enable you to survive,” be in it and out of it, for her, and sorry, for Arie Sover.
Arie Sover goes on to talk about, “Jewish humour dates back at least to the 11th century in Spain,” and interestingly then, the Jewish servants had to entertain their wealthy masters with satirical poems. And Sover argues that this was followed by Ashkenazi jesters who were hired to be the life of a party and use a combination of riddles, religious references, juggling and music to entertain the wealthy elite and the patrons. And that the Ashkenazi Jews, in Sover’s idea, took the satire ultimately to America. These are all interesting ideas. I don’t think any of them is up for hard, sort of scientific proof, but they, fascinating. And of course, Sover talks about the comic relief from being the underdog and born into the underdog culture, and of course, the humour that comes out of that. And you know, the one last idea is the idea of the Jewish identity, which is from Sartre’s book on antisemitism, with Sartre’s main idea is that, of course, Jewish people are the ultimate scapegoat in the Western world. So for anything, capitalism, communism, good, bad, whatever, anything, there’s the scapegoat. And Harpo, if you look carefully, Harpo is the ultimate scapegoat in the trio of the brothers. You know, it’s for apparent stupidity, apparent misunderstanding, apparent misconception, all the, inverted commas, stupidity. But cleverly is able to outwit through the heart, through the physical, you know, brilliance of the performance. So there’s a double paradox in the meaning of being cast or framed as the ultimate scapegoat. And of course, the Marx brothers always get the laugh because in the end they triumph. The scapegoats as the outsider, always must triumph, you know, and that’s part of the comedy, and how we feel so good afterwards. They win the battle against their persecutors. And the other people in the movies are always the upper-class bullies, the fools, the police, the this, the that, they’re always like that. And they always managed to outwit, as only the intelligent outsider parvenu pariah can do. Okay, I want to show the first clip. We’ve gone to the number four, please, Emily. This is a brief compilation of a couple of moments.
Dad, let me congratulate you. I’m proud to be your son.
My boy, you took the words right out of my mouth. I’m ashamed to be your father. ♪ His excellency is due to take his station ♪ ♪ Beginning his new administration ♪
[Client] They tell me you’re a great lawyer.
Who does? Not my clients. ♪ The clock on the wall strikes 10:00 ♪
Would you mind going out and crossing the boulevard when the lights are against you?
Three cheers for Captain Spaulding.
No one asked for the chairs.
Here, keep me posted.
Now all I need, is both your signatures on the bottom. No here, on the bottom.
Chicolini here may talk like an idiot and look like an idiot, but don’t let that fool you, he really is an idiot. ♪ Hail, hail, Freedonia ♪ ♪ Land of the free ♪
Okay, this is a brief introduction. ♪ And brave ♪
Now, step on it.
We can go on to the next clip, please. This is from “Duck Soup”, one of the great classic scenes.
Why don’t you fellows be nice. Get out of here before I get arrested.
Nah, I’d like to stay and see that. What’s that? If it’s a policeman, knock once more. That’s good enough for me.
Get out, right now, get out. Come in. ♪ When the moon comes over the mountain ♪ ♪ And the nightingale ♪ Yes?
You remember me. I’m Henderson, the plain clothes man.
You look more like an old clothes man to me.
Nice place.
Well it’s, it’s comfortable.
You live here all alone?
Yes, just me and my memories, I’m practically a hermit.
Oh, a hermit. I noticed the table set for four.
That’s nothing, my alarm clock I set for 8:00. That doesn’t prove a thing.
A wise guy, well I’ll take a little look around.
Look out.
Hey you.
Coming.
What’s a hermit doing with four beds?
Well, you see those first three beds?
Yes.
Last night I counted 5,000 sheep in those three beds, so I had to have another bed to sleep in. You wouldn’t want me to sleep with the sheep, would you? Hey you. Who you talking to?
I was talking to myself, and there’s nothing you can do about it. I’ve had three of the best doctors in the East.
Well, I certainly heard somebody say something.
Oh, it’s sheer folly on your part.
What’s this?
Why, that’s a fire escape, and that’s a table, and this is a room, and there’s the door leading out, and I wish you’d use it. I, I want to be alone.
You’ll be alone when I throw you in jail.
[Groucho] Isn’t there a song like that, Henderson? Look out, he’s coming around the other way, get inside quick. If he catches, now believe me, it means a stretch at the Big House-
Catches me?
If he sees you in here. Don’t let him catch you in here.
Hey you.
Coming.
What became of that fourth bed?
What are you referring to, Colonel?
The last time I was in this room, there were four beds here.
Please, I’m not interested in your private life, Hamilton. Oh. Say, what’s that bed doing here?
I don’t see it doing anything.
There’s something funny going on around here-
And around there-
[Henderson] But I’ll get to the bottom of it.
[Groucho] Stairs right there, look out, look out. Now be on your guard, whatever you-
Hey you-
Coming.
Am I crazy or are there only two beds here?
Now which question do you want me to answer first, Henderson?
, please Emily?
Say.
So, do you want to just freeze it? Just one thing Groucho spoke about a lot, which we get in this scene, where the fall guy, in this case, of course the cop, makes a comment and he uses the exact words of the comment and flips it against the person. Classic comic structure, going way back thousands of years, but also what he does to perfection in the one-liners. Use what’s given, Churchill as well. Use what’s given and flip it back, okay? If we can go onto the next clip, please. Which is from “Duck Soup”. ♪ Freedonia, land of the free and brave ♪
You expecting somebody?
Yes. ♪ Hail, hail Freedonia ♪ ♪ Land of the free and brave ♪
Oh, Your Excellency, we’ve been expecting you. As chairwoman of the reception committee, I extend the good wishes of every man, woman, and child of Freedonia.
Never mind that, now take a card.
Card? What do I do with the card?
You can keep it, I’ve got 51 left. Now what were you saying?
As chairwoman of the reception committee, I welcome you with open arms.
Is that so? How late do you stay open?
I’ve sponsored your appointment, because I feel you are the most able statesman in all Freedonia.
Well, that covers a lot of ground. Say, you cover a lot of ground yourself. You better beat it, I hear they’re going to tear you down, and put up an office building where you’re standing. You can leave in a taxi. If you can’t get a taxi, you can leave in a huff. If that’s too soon, you can leave in a minute and a huff. You know, you haven’t stopped talking since I came here? You must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle.
The future of Freedonia rests on you. Promise me you’ll follow in the footsteps of my husband.
How do you like that? I haven’t been on the job five minutes, and already she’s making advances to me. Not that I care, but where is your husband?
Why, he’s dead.
I’ll bet he’s just using that as an excuse.
I was with him till the very end.
Hmm, no wonder he passed away.
I held him in my arms and kissed him.
Oh I see, then it was murder. Will you marry me? Did he leave you any money? Answer the second question first.
He left me his entire fortune.
Is that so? Can’t you see what I’m trying to tell you? I love you.
Oh, Your Excellency.
You’re not so bad yourself.
Well, if we can go to the next clip, please. Classic again, use what the other one gives, turn it and flip it as an insult against them, okay? And of course the opportunist, you know, out to grab any moment that he can get inside the system, and take advantage. And of course, he’s literally the outsider in that opening scene as they wait for, you know, the wife of the dead president. Okay, “Night of the Opera”.
You better say something.
You want this one, please?
I never made a speech in my life.
All right, I’ll take care of it.
You?
Ladies and gentlemen, I guess that takes in most of you. This is the opening of a new opera season, a season made possible by the generous checks of Mrs. Claypool. I’m sure the familiar strains of Verdi’s music will come back to you tonight, and Mrs. Claypool’s checks will probably come back in the morning. Tonight marks the American debut of Rodolfo Lassparri. Senor Lassparri comes from a very famous family. His mother was a well-known bass singer, and his father was the first man to stuff spaghetti with bicarbonate of soda, thus causing and curing indigestion at the same time. And now on with the opera, let joy be unconfined. Let there be dancing in the streets, drinking in the saloons, and necking in the parlour. Play, Don.
I’ll take this side
It’s none of of my business, but I think there’s a brace of woodpeckers in the orchestra.
Don’t give up boys-
It’s this, turn important moments-
The cavalry is coming.
Into exaggerated comedy.
Aha!
Mr. Goodman?
I’ll see you later.
What are you doing?
It’s all right, it’s just the Tarzan in me.
That Peanuts, peanuts. Get your fresh roasted peanut, folks. They’re nice and hot, get your peanuts. Peanuts, peanuts? Ah, peanuts, peanuts. Yes, fresh roasted peanuts.
What is so great for me, is they’re taking, obviously one of the, regarded as the elite of society, the art form, you know, the top of the tree, the opera, the sort of almost almost reverential status accorded to much opera, certainly around their times, and then subverting it and satirising and ridiculing. You know, it’s the attitude to the opera, the holier than thou, it’s so important and so beautiful, every, and how they in all these little ways subvert. It’s that attitude to the holier than thou institution, attitude to that holier thou, the reverence of that institution, which I found brilliant. classic satire, the underdog, the outsider, taking on something that is at the absolute centre of value of the dominant culture. Okay, if we can go onto the next slide, please. There’s a great classic, which everybody knows so well.
Ah, this meeting brings back memories. Childhood days, lemonade, romance. My life was wrapped around the circus. Her name was Lydia, we met at the World’s Fair in 1900, marked down from 1940, ah Lydia.
♪ She was the most glorious creature under the sun ♪ ♪ Weiss, Du Barry, Garbo, rolled into one ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, oh Lydia, say have you met Lydia ♪ ♪ Lydia, the tattooed lady ♪ ♪ She has eyes that folks adore so ♪ ♪ And a torso even more so ♪ ♪ Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopaedia ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, the queen of tattoo ♪ ♪ On her back is the Battle of Waterloo ♪ ♪ Beside it the Wreck of the Hesperus too ♪ ♪ And proudly above the waves the Red, White and Blue ♪ ♪ You can learn a lot from Lydia ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ When her robe is unfurled she will show you the world ♪ ♪ If you step up and tell her where ♪ ♪ For a dime you can see Kankakee or Paree ♪ ♪ Or Washington crossing the Delaware ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, oh Lydia, say have you met Lydia ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, the tattooed lady ♪ ♪ When her muscles start relaxin’ ♪ ♪ Up the hill comes Andrew Jackson ♪ ♪ Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopaedia ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, the queen of them all ♪ ♪ For two bits she will do a mazurka in jazz ♪ ♪ With a view of Niagara that nobody has ♪ ♪ And on a clear day you can see Alcatraz ♪ ♪ You can learn a lot from Lydia ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ Come along and see Buffalo Bill with his lasso ♪ ♪ Just a little classic by Mendel, Picasso ♪ ♪ Here is Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon ♪ ♪ Here’s Godiva, but with her pyjamas on ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ La la la, la la la ♪ ♪ Here is Grover Whalen, unveiling the Trylon ♪ ♪ Over on the west coast we have Treasure Island ♪ ♪ Here’s Nijinsky a-doing the Rumba ♪ ♪ Here’s her Social Security number ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopaedia ♪ ♪ Oh Lydia, the champ of them all ♪ ♪ She once swept an Admiral clear off his feet ♪ ♪ The ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat ♪ ♪ And now the old boy’s in command of the fleet ♪ ♪ For he went and married Lydia ♪ ♪ I said Lydia, he said Lydia ♪ ♪ I said Lydia, we said Lydia, la la ♪
If we can hold that please. Thanks Emily, and just to hold that for a moment. This song which has gone down, of course it’s so iconic in comedy and film folklore. And Groucho was asked to sing it again and again, you know, all through his whole life. But what’s fascinating to me is, of course they choose a tattooed lady. And you know, it’s somebody from this, some of the outsider world who is an icon of beauty, of grace, of desire, and you know, of potential, of such admiration and even possibly love. Okay, the next one I’m going to show, if you can go to the next clip, please, is, Groucho was invited to give a speech on behalf, at an event celebrating Johnny Carson, who was an old friend of his. Let’s listen to some of the speech, remarkable speech that Groucho gave.
When comedians sit around and discuss comedy, the name Groucho is mentioned with awe and respect and great admiration.
[Groucho] This means I’m going to die up there.
[Host] You’ll never ave a nicer introduction to a funeral, I promise you that.
I want to hear what you say at the finish.
The legendary leers, caustic wit-
[Groucho] I’m sick of that word, legendary.
Established him as one of our most outrageous humorists. He makes Don Rickles look like The Flying Nun.
And don’t think that wouldn’t be an improvement. The remarks bear witness to two of the funniest words in the English language, ladies and gentlemen, Groucho Marx.
How you doing?
I’m doing good.
You’re looking fine tonight, you’re much taller than I thought you were. Friars and guest of honour, when I was asked to appear here tonight on the Kraft Music Hall to honour Johnny Carson, my immediate reaction was to give up my citizenship and move to Czechoslovakia. Actually, I thought they’d yell at that. Then the silence came over Appomattox. Frankly, I cannot live in a country that will honour a man who’s only claim to fame is that from the side, he looks like Audrey Hepburn. I thought that, there would be deadly silence. You may be fooled by a lousy speech. Don’t worry, your time is coming. Actually, when you’re commanded to appear at this kind of a turkey, you naturally feel privileged and honoured, but in my case it’s ridiculous, I hardly know the man. He’s a complete strangler, no stranger. I had a bet on that, Johnny. He’s a complete stranger, and not even a close one at that. Sure, I’ve heard a few stories about Johnny Carson, but a man’s private, sordid life is his own. Nevertheless, I have done some research on little Johnny. I went back to the scene of his childhood, Nebraska. Isn’t that true? It’s Nebraska? You keep shifting around the Middle West, I don’t know where you’re from. I went to Nebraska to talk to Johnny’s mother. I’m happy to report she remembers Johnny. She doesn’t remember his father, but she remembers Johnny.
Then I called on his old high school teacher, and I asked her, “What kind of a student was Johnny Carson?” But she didn’t remember Johnny, however she did remember Johnny’s father. You know, I try to watch Johnny. I tuned in three times. One time Jerry Lewis was the host of “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson”. The second time, Harry Belafonte was the host of “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson.” Third time, I was the host of “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson.” I’ve never known Johnny Carson to host “The Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson.” We’re honouring a man who doesn’t show up for work. He could be the mayor. Let me give you an idea of the friendship Johnny Carson and I have for each other. I was on Johnny Carson’s very first “Tonight Show”, six years ago. I’ll never forget the first night I met him, and heaven knows I’ve tried. I was in my dressing room, at least that’s what they said it was. It was the only dressing room I ever saw with 12 sinks. He rushed in, dropped some change in the machine, bought a comb, a nail clipper, got a spray of perfume and left. The last time I saw him was about 40 minutes ago. I had the same dressing room, two sinks had been removed. He came in and said, “Boy, am I glad you’re here. The nail clipper doesn’t work.” Well for your information, Mr. Carson, the perfume’s worn off too. Johnny, I’ve never asked a favour of you, because frankly you’re not the warmest person in the world, even in your underwear, but I’d like to ask you a favour anyway. Can you get me Hermione Gingo’s phone number?
- Yeah, if you can hold that there for a moment, please Emily, thank you. I wanted to show this in the end. I mean, there are a couple of other clips. Well, but we’re going to hold that obviously, because it shows, I think Groucho, at his just brilliant best. Not only the remarkable one-liners of wit and comedy, but there’s an affection, there is a love for the person that he’s ridiculing and satirising, obviously Johnny Carson. So, and he’s got this very soft, deadpan delivery, which he has in the films as well. There’s never a big anger, rage, whether it’s at the cop, whether it’s at the pretentious elite or whatever, it is always this, just like, it’s sort of almost a restrained voice in performance and in giving a speech here. He keeps up the little hints of Yiddishness, little hints of that sort of New York immigrant accent, of course you know, and he’s playing the image, he’s playing the persona, but he’s also playing himself here. And deep underneath it, all the characters he’s ridiculing, there is such an affection, you know, if not even more. And what I love is not only the civility that America ultimately welcomes at this time in its existence, it welcomes the satirist, the character who will ridicule its institutions, its operas, its races, its war even, in “Duck Soup”, much more. It will ridicule and satirise almost anything, and it gives it that freedom to do it. And it’s not only a confident society, it’s a society discovering an identity. For me, it’s ultimately the outsider Jewish identity of Groucho and Harper and Chico and the others. It’s celebrating this Jewish identity with all these ideas I mentioned possibly about humour. ‘cause of course he’s ridiculing himself, Groucho, in ridiculing the other. It’s self-deprecating, it’s the scapegoat, it’s all these ideas we’ve spoken about today. But it’s a celebration of Jewish humour and identity in the brilliant outsider comic genius of Groucho and his brothers. Okay, I’m going to hold it there, and we can go into the questions, thanks.
Q&A and Comments:
Joan, “A good friend just told me that her grandmother was a neighbour and close friend of Minnie’s, but in Washington Heights.” Oh okay, interesting, thank you, thanks Joan.
Q: Myrna, “What is the year?”
A: That family photo was 1915.
Susan, oh thanks. Well, thank you very much for your kind comments, and I join you completely in the prayer for the hostages, She families, everybody in Israel. Spoke to my sister in Jerusalem last night for two hours. We talk every few days, and the horror that’s going on there. And I agree with you, thank you Susan.
Q: Arlene, “Did any of the Marx brothers marry a Jewish woman?”
A: Great question, I would need to check it, actually. I also need to check marriages and divorces registered, I guess.
Q: Then Naomi, “Could Groucho have chosen his facial makeup as a nod to their father?”
A: Yeah well it’s, I mean, a connection to his roots without bringing in Jewish verbally, Jewishness.
“Interesting hairline of the four, all like their father’s, except the youngest.” Yeah, so it’s a fascinating question. The link between the shtetl and the previous part of the father, the grandfather they would’ve come from, and their own. And what they took and incorporated, especially in Groucho’s accent, and in aspects of the costumes, of Groucho’s in particular, definitely. Some of the facial makeup, maybe. I don’t know that Naomi, great question.
Q: Myrna, “Who wrote the dialogue?”
A: They wrote it. I mean, Groucho did ad lib some, but we don’t know exactly how much he ad libbed, and how much was was written. But Groucho was a brilliant writer, and that’s why I wanted to show the Johnny Carson at the end, a brilliant writer. And if you see his letters to TS Eliot, because you know, he had this friendship with TS Eliot, and eventually went, he was in London, TSS Eliot invited him for a dinner. And they had this long correspondence going on, 'cause TS Eliot absolutely admired Groucho. And Groucho always wanted to be something of a, inverted commas, man of letters, sort of serious writer, inverted commas, and TS Eliot, I guess, was jealous of the anarchic, zany humour of Groucho, the intellectual brilliance of the wit. So you know, the virtue of the writing, you see some of his letters to TS Eliot, are so clever and and subversive, but in a subtle way.
Phyllis, “Their behaviour is typical of Jews from Germany. They came to New York and tried to assimilate, unlike Eastern European Jews.” Fascinating point you’re making Phyllis. That’s really interesting.
Ron hi, hope that you’re well. “My father was born and grew up in Yorkville on the Upper East Side. There were many central and eastern European immigrants in the late 19th century, not just the Germans,” fantastic, “many of them Jewish, you know, grandparents.” Really interesting Ron, thanks.
Rita, “Harpo appeared, 'I Love Lucy’.” Yes, of course, in the iconic mirror episode. I know, and I was going to show the mirror one, but I chose to show, I mean the mirror one, there’s the cabin crew, some of the absolute classics. But I chose to show a few which were slightly less the great classics, which I thought everybody, almost would know. Barbara, thank you.
Q: “Are these their names?”
A: No, no, no, they were their stage names. Groucho was Julius Henry Marx.
Okay Jill, “Birth order is actually Chico in 1887.” Okay great, thanks.
Yonna, “Rowan Atkinson is wrong. Insult and personal ridicule is not a necessary component of humour. Puns probably the lowest form, probably the only form of jokes poking fun at other person or group.” Well that’s a fascinating debate Yonna, and thank you for that. But the idea of ridicule, not only Aristophanes of a couple of thousand years ago, but you know, from what I’ve read with John Cleese, and with Woody Allen, just with so many, Rowan Atkinson and others, it’s the way of using insult. It’s the way of using ridicule. He’s insulting Johnny Carson and he’s ridiculing him, but he’s doing it in a way which is not grotesque. It’s a subtle, it’s almost a bit of lovable, but it’s also the not, and it’s that double quality for me, of the Jewish outsider, that captures the wit. That’s the intelligence I think, in it. It’s not just an insult, which is crude, vulgar, and frankly stupid.
Karen, “In that photo, they were dressed to go somewhere.” I wonder where? “Groucho’s the only one holding a hat,” yes, “wearing a scarf. Most of the photos that period were posed.” Exactly, that was just a quick snap in such a natural way. And of course, Minnie the mother at the middle.
Q: Roger, “What are their first names derived from?”
A: Well I think it goes back. I mean Groucho was Julius and, and the others, et cetera, yeah, probably linked to some family connection, I would imagine.
Jill, “Chico, Harpo,” great, thank you. Imagine being the mother of these five guys. It’s just for a moment, really, you know, being a mother of five children is a tougher job than being president of 10 United States, as far as I’m concerned. You know, it’s the most remarkably tough, demanding job in the world. Five little young kids, and five boys like this, with such brilliance and wit and everything, amazing, amazing position and role that she must have had and done.
Barbara, “They look prosperous before their fame.” Not really, they didn’t have enough. They didn’t have enough to go to university. They didn’t have enough to follow further school and many other things. They came from, not necessarily, they weren’t starving, but they were pretty poor. Great, thanks Ron.
“Many of the great Groucho lines, in fact written by Morrie Ryskind. He also wrote or co-wrote a number of scripts for the great Gershwin films, musicals.”
Okay, “Got the Oscar nomination. Morrie Ryskind certainly deserves prominent credit.” Great, well Ron, thanks so much for that, appreciate.
Ronald, “Minnie originally had the brothers as a singing group,” yes, in Vaudeville.
“When they went away, they started their zaniness.” Yeah, and sort of zany anarchy I guess.
Q: Arlene, “Wasn’t a successful comedian, one of the Jewish Gallagher and Shean, Minnie’s brother?”
A: Yes, I think you’re right. I would have to check the details, thanks Arlene.
Monty, “Groucho had a daughter whose mother was not Jewish.” Yeah, “She was keen to join the country club. There’s one of the great classic letters that Groucho wrote, because she was refused entrance to join the swimming pool, the swimming club, because it was closed to Jewish membership,” yep.
“And he said they should admit her, and only allowed to go into the pool up to the waist, ‘cause she was only half Jewish.” It’s one of his great letters that he wrote, Groucho. Okay, and then Michael, “I was hoping to hear more details of the men themselves. Only one slide was shown, and there were no other images.” Well there’s so many, but the clips from the films, you know, I wanted to obviously have a balance of both, 'cause there’s so many brilliant clips, and from the films, and lines, and it’s just so much. One has to obviously choose. So the aim is to include a couple of clips which are slightly less well known. Not as I said, the cabin crew, the mirror scene, which are absolute classics. So I thought, show just, you know, a couple that were slightly less known.
Q: Ruth, “Is there any coincidence that Oprah is Harpo backwards?”
A: Isn’t Oprah’s film company called Harpo Productions, or something like that? I’m not sure, have to check that.
Q: Suzanne, “What will happen to, especially standup comedians and comedy in general, trigger warnings,” yeah. “You know, insulted by just about everything.”
A: Well to be frank, I know many universities where you now have to give a trigger warning if you teach “Macbeth” or “Richard III”, 'cause Richard III has a hunchback, so it can be seen as anti disabled people. If you’re teaching “Macbeth”, trigger warning, because there are lots of gruesome killings, especially of little children in “Macbeth”. A trigger warning for “Hamlet”, there’s an attack on the mother. A trigger warning, I can go on and on, but I’m serious about this is happening, universities not only in the UK, but globally. And as a result, the choice of what people are teaching is becoming less and less culturally expansive, and challenging, to put it mildly.
Rita, “Great Groucho line, the letter of recognition to the Friar’s Club. 'I don’t want to belong to any club, would accept me as one of its members’,” yeah, exactly. So many of these lines from Groucho, which are, you know, everywhere.
Will, “Johnny Carson was with Jack Benny when he died, and both Groucho and Jack Benny had much influence on Johnny Carson,” yep.
Karen, “Groucho’s comedy was able to succeed partly ‘cause institutions of the time, opera, government, were still functioning in a real, managed way.” Yes, “Today comedy is becoming a bit debased, 'cause organisations it would likely satirise have become caricatures.” I think Karen, you’re making a really good point, you know, and I know quite a few people, you know, when you think about the idea of kitsch, it’s so much of today’s society is kitsch and so much is caricature already, but dangerous caricature and dangerous, scary kitsch. So the contrast between them and the comedian, between the showman and the leader, is such a narrowing, thin line. And that’s a challenge for comedy, absolutely. Because the rule-based structures are all, you know, cracking.
Ronald, “Yip Harburg,” yeah. “He wrote the words for 'Lydia’,” yep, “and said it was his favourite song.” Yeah, wonderful writer, Yip Harburg, as I’m sure many of you know.
Ron, “The music to ‘Lydia’ was written by Harold Arden, same team that wrote ‘Over the Rainbow’,” absolutely. What I love is the way he sings it, you know? And it’s got the hint of the New York Jewish and the Yiddish in the tone. And in the very beginning, it’s always like, “Oy,” you know, which is the beginning of one of the classic dances.
Richard, “I recall the late Robin Williams singing ‘Lydia’ in the film ‘Fisher King’.” Oh great, that’s the, you know, I’m trying to remember it, yeah.
Steve, well they wrote most of their movies, and of course it was adapted, it was changed. They brought other writers, yeah, but primarily they were the ones.
Q: John, “Is TS Eliot and Groucho Marx’s correspondence worth reading?”
A: I think there are a couple of letters, And then the most fascinating is reading what Groucho wrote afterwards. He wanted TS Eliot to give him a serious talk on “King Lear” and TS Eliot wanted him to tell him how he created the comedy. So Groucho, I think was kind of disappointed. He thought he was going to have a really good talk on Shakespeare, “King Lear”, and a whole lot of other things. But they carried on corresponding. And let’s not forget, TS Eliot, you know, had a strong streak, fairly strong anyway, of antisemitism. But Groucho still went, carried on corresponding and meeting.
Q: Rita, “Who wrote the lyrics for the songs?”
A: Well, that one was written by Yip Harburg, “Lydia”, but they also wrote.
Jeremy, “HL Mencken,” not as far as I know. Great question, ‘cause he was a fantastic satirist. And Dorothy Parker, this whole generation.
John, “I think JS Perlman wrote some of the films.” Maybe, they were brought in, a lot of, I think friends and others were brought in, different times.
Sandy “Groucho was so quick in the moment.” You also, yeah, I’ve watched quite a bit of “You Bet Your Life”, it’s absolutely brilliant. And if you ever want to treat yourself Sandy, there is a brilliant YouTube clip where Groucho is the host in the TV programme “You Bet Your Life”, and there is a Baptist preacher who comes to have a dialogue, a real Baptist preacher who comes to have a dialogue with Groucho, and the Baptist preacher outwits Groucho. And it’s so brilliant and lovable between them. And the other great scene in “You Bet Your Life” is when Rocky Marciano’s mother comes, and is interviewed by Groucho and talks about how, you know, she ruled the roost basically over little Rocky as a little boy. And then later in that same episode, Rocky Marciano arrives. Those two, such great scenes, and especially the one with the Baptist preacher, if you want to have fun.
Q: Elaine, “Did the Marx Brothers accumulate wealth?”
A: Yes, very much.
Lawrence, “Groucho was called, 'cause he was grouchy.” Yeah, exactly. Well his wives accused him of cruelty, et cetera, et cetera. And that’s a big debate going on. How much was humour, how much wasn’t? I understand that, and I’m not sure how much the grouchy was taken as a stage persona, and how much was true to the way he actually lived, brushed his teeth in the morning, had breakfast, had lunch, had a cup of coffee, you know, the day-to-day normality of life, ordinariness of life compared to the persona. It’s always debatable with any iconic performer.
Julian, “I heard TS Eliot was antisemitic.” Yes, it was strange, he was friendly with the Marx brothers. Yeah, I mean the classic antisemitic lines in some of the greatest of TS Eliot’s poetry, it’s in there, you know? You can have a look for yourself, it’s disgusting. Not many, but a couple, about half a dozen, seven, eight lines, which are disgustingly antisemitic. But Groucho, you know, nevertheless kept up this friendship correspondence.
Josie, you said, you think Jewish humour in America developed today, oh, Jerry Seinfeld and so many others. That’s a great question Josie, but I think we’re going to have to hold that for another time, you know? Because I don’t want to just give a glib one-sentence answer, it would do a disservice to the contemporary comics, 'cause I think they are as good, or close to as good as Groucho and the others, eventually. Certainly Woody Allen, brilliant. And Seinfeld in his own way, brilliant, and others. Let’s just see here.
Q: “Any of their children continued?”
A: Not as far as I know, no.
Ron, “Frank Sinatra’s last wife Barbara was previously married to Zeppo,” yep. Thanks for that, Ron.
Jerry, “George Kaufman wrote some of the movies.” Yeah, he wrote parts of it with them.
Ron, “Don’t forget, 'Lydia’ was sung by the younger sister in ‘Philadelphia Story’.” Absolutely, Ron. Rhoda, “SJ Perlman did co-write,” yeah, for “Monkey Business” and “Horse Feathers”. Yeah, some of the slightly lesser-known, the great, the ultimate great films they made.
Okay Monty, “HL Mencken, antisemite,” yeah, as a lot of them were.
David, “On his quiz show, ‘Whose Life Anyway’, if a contestant could not answer a question, he would ask, ‘Who’s buried in Grant’s Tomb?’”
Exactly, okay, so let me hold it there. And thanks so much again to everybody, and as we come to the end and the beginning of a whole new year here in the world, I just hope everybody, as Wendy said earlier, you know, that perhaps we can hope for peace, and we can hope for the role of humour to continue in some form, and then ultimately to remember the value of love and passion and, you know, being alive and together. May I wish everybody a peaceful year, and hopefully a much better year. Thanks to you all, if I may say, to everybody participating everywhere in the world, for joining this remarkable family that Wendy has created in lockdown. And thank you, Wendy, again. Thanks Emily, ciao.