Trudy Gold
Jews and Revolution in Budapest

Trudy Gold - Jews and Revolution in Budapest

- Good evening everybody, and as I said, I hope you’re all well. Now, within the whole project of looking at the Habsburg Empire. For the next two sessions, I’m going to be looking at the Jews of Hungary, the land of the Magyars. And I hope my Hungarian pronunciation of names is not too bad. I wanted to speak to Tommy Kamoly, but he’s actually in Australia, so I dunno if anyone else can, I don’t know if Susan Pollock is on. If any of you, perhaps you can help me phonetically with my pronunciations. And don’t forget Hungary, very much the gateway between the East and the West. What about Jewish history? Well, we know that Jews lived there in Roman times. After the destruction of the Second Temple and after the exile, Jews moved all over the Roman Empire. And we know that there were Jews in these lands because there were Jewish chroniclers. And I’ll be talking about that when I talk about Russia. So they lived, we know that they lived there before the coming of the Magyars. In the 10th century, this whole area was, in fact, Christianized by King Stephen, his bishop, Bishop Gellert. Those of you who visit Budapest will know what a great hero he is. And really the second real centre of Jewish immigration begins with the immigration of Jews from Moravia, Bohemia, and Germany in the 11th century. This was a response to the Crusading further that overtook Jewish communities, tragically, in the Rhineland. As the Christian Crusaders made their way to the Holy Land to free it from the Muslims, tragically, they wiped out whole sections of the Jewish community.

You know, Jewish history, if you think about it, from the fall of the Second Temple, really up until the Enlightenment, and then again in the 20th century, what’s it about? It’s about Jews looking for security, living on their wits, staying in a place until they have to move on. And, of course, once this area is Christianized, you have the full weight of the Catholic Church. And for example, in 1092, intermarriage between Jews and Christians is banned. Jews forbidden to work on Sunday. This is the church taking power away from the pagans and, at the same time, pushing the Jews aside and pushing them more and more into circumscribed kinds of work. Because if there’s inter-marriage, and, remember, this is now a religious worldview. We know that there’s mixing between the two communities. Also, special identification. This was very much as a result of the Lateran Council of 1215, which meant Jews had to identify themselves differently. And you will remember that England was, in fact, the first country to do this. In Hungary, they had to wear a yellow patch or a high pointed hat. Now, the whole of this area of land was, of course, devastated by the Mongol invasion. And it ravages the country. It’s a terrible, terrible time. And again, but then they come back. Jews come back. Why do they come back? Because Hungary is a vast land with an aristocracy and a peasantry and, of course, the church. Where do the Jews fit in?

They are the merchants, the traders, the money lenders. Whenever there’s a period of horror, like the Black Death, of course the pendulum swings against them. The Black Death, people didn’t understand medicine, they didn’t understand disease. It appears that not so many Jews were dying. Is it the hygiene laws? Who knows. We haven’t got enough evidence. But what we do know is that there were terrible periods of persecution as a response to it. So what happened? The Jews are again in trouble. Centuries of swinging backwards and forwards of the pendulum. Jews coming in when they can be useful and make money and survive, moving off when they can’t. And in 1526, a very, very important year in European history, the Battle of the Mohacs. And what happens at the Battle of the Mohacs? The Turks, the important Muslim empire, defeats the Christian armies and they take most of Hungary. Now, this is very important because one of the great motifs of European history are the ongoing wars between Christianity and Islam. And who are the people can cross from one to the other? And, of course, that is the Jews. So when Christianity, when the secular rulers were in the upswing, in the main, Jews were relatively safe. It’s when there’s an upsurge of Christian fervour, Jews are in trouble. And, of course, many Jews fled with the Turks. Why? Because, at that stage of history, the rule of Islam was more beneficial to the Jews than the rule of Christianity. They found refuge in the Turkish Empire. There was a huge range of occupation patterns.

Jews could enter far more trades and professions under Islam. The word is under Islam. Under Islam, Jews had what is known as dhimmi status. They have to pay a body tax and a land tax, but they can live in peace under Islam. And that meant in certain stages they could be grand viziers, they could be generals in the army, but they could not be sultan. And that’s important to remember. It’s this dhimmi status which, later on, is going to become so important in the 20th century. Anyway, of course, in the swings of empire, in 1683, the armies of the Turkish Empire are at the gates of Vienna. And this is a resounding defeat for the Turkish Empire by the Habsburgs. And I’ve covered it in other presentations. So suffice to say, ironically, a lot of it was due to the wealth of a man called Samuel Oppenheimer. Why? Because it was Samuel Oppenheimer. He was a banker, if you remember, he was the court factor to the emperor, and basically he financed the Turkish Wars. What that meant was that he provisioned the army, that he made sure that there was money to pay the mercenary troops. And not only that, Prince Eugene of Savoy was so pleased with his help that he actually brought in a large number of Hebrew manuscripts from Turkey. And that is now the basis of the library now at the Bodleian. So basically, ironically, it’s a Jew who himself lifts the siege of Budapest. And so it goes on. So it goes on. Can we see the next slide, please? You’ll see there is Samuel Oppenheimer. And then, of course, the siege of Budapest, the Siege of Vienna.

Can we just see the next slide please? Yes. The Siege of Vienna. Now, I’m going through this very quickly because I have covered it in other presentations. Now, of course, we have a situation where the Catholic Church is again triumphant. And you have a situation where, even though Samuel Oppenheimer has been so useful, Bishop Kollonitsch, who is the Primate of Hungary, advises, because now the Habsburgs are ruling again in Hungary, he advises them to give preference to German Catholics. He held, he said that, “You don’t exterminate the Jews, but they should be weeded out by decree as bad coin is gradually withdrawn from circulation.” So this is the atmosphere and this particular, you know, the 16th, 17th centuries, 18th centuries, before the Enlightenment, it’s very much where can Jews find safety? And, of course, after Pecar, we’re going to be looking at the empires of the East. And by that, I mean the Polish Empire, the Russian Empire. And hopefully, by the end of summer, we’re going to get all the way up to the present situation. Anyway, the Diet of Pressburg. And can we see the next slide? Maria Theresa, what a woman she was. Now the Diet of Pressburg, she imposed double taxation on the Jews. They weren’t allowed, they completely forbidden from being involved in agriculture.

They’re not allowed to have real estate. They are not allowed to have Christian servants. So, again, it’s very much laid down. And in 1735 there was a census taken of the Jews in the Hungarian lands. And of which we now know there was 11,000. They wanted a census because they wanted to keep the numbers down. And we know their professions. They were involved in, well, obviously they were commerce, they looked after the small shops. They were also the innkeepers. And I’ve already discussed with you during the reign of Maria Theresa, ‘cause of course she rules that the Hungarian lands, Jews were expelled from Buda. Buda and Pest were two separate cities. They are not out amalgamated until the 19th century. And not only that, she imposed a huge toleration tax. They were allowed to live only in certain areas. For example, they were thrown out of Moravia. So her reign was a terrible one for the Jews. She’s seen as a creature of the Enlightenment. But, in fact, from a Jewish history point of view, this is where it’s so much inside out. I was having a conversation with Patrick Bade about her. And because he sees her from his viewpoint as a cultural historian. And, of course, she’s seen as a monarch of the Enlightenment. But she had an absolute detestation of Jews. She had always a court Jew, but she would not see him face to face. She would only deal with him behind a screen. But, of course, it does change. History does move on.

And can we see her son? Because it’s her son, Joseph, who introduces the Edict of Toleration. Now don’t forget, I’m talking about toleration. Jews can now be tolerated. What does he want to do? He wants to improve. He’s ruling a huge empire. As you all know, Hungary is just one part of the huge empire and he wants to raise his people up. Look, he’s an Enlightened despot. He’s a creature of the Enlightenment, but he needs to create a sound economy. And as a result, he is prepared to tolerate the Jews because they can be useful. So however, history moves on. The revolutions and the revolutions of 1848. And of course it’s not until 1867 with the joint crowns that Jews are actually allowed to become part of Hungarian society. So when the joint crowns are created. And can we see the next slide please? Which we’ve covered when we’ve looked, of course, at the career of Franz Joseph and the emperor, Elizabeth. William and I have both covered this. When Austria and Hungary are united as one crown, what happens to the Jews is they are now emancipated and that’s going to make a huge difference. Now, can we go on please? These are two very interesting politicians in the Hungarian Diet. Ferenc Deak. I hope I’ve pronounced it properly. And the second one, please. Jozsef Eotvos. Somebody must help me with this pronunciation. And basically this is what Ferenc Deak announces. He is responsible, the two of them pilot a law through the Hungarian Parliament, and I’m quoting, “It is hereby proclaimed that the Israelite inhabitants of the country are entitled to exercise all civil and political rights equally with Christian inhabitants.

All laws, practises, and regulations contrary to those present are hereby repealed.” And as for son, Lorand, two decades later when he is in power, they are going to formally acknowledge Judaism as a received religion alongside Christianity. And, of course, it’s in this period. Can we see the next slide please, Lauren? There you have the great Dohany Street Synagogue. It begins in 1859 and it’s one of the greatest synagogues in Europe. It’s a very elegant, extraordinary building. And those of you who know your Zionist history will know that a very important man in the history of the Jewish world, Theodor Herzl, his family home in Budapest was actually next door to the Dohany Street Synagogue. I’ve been there. I’m sure many of you who’ve visited Budapest have been there. And it is absolutely extraordinary. So now within 100 years, a very small percentage of the Jewish population are now emancipated. And to give you an idea, it meant that more and more of them are going to come to Budapest. And these liberalising measures, they encourage really the Jews to really take an important part in Hungary. Now, what’s going to happen? From their tradition of middle men, of the agricultural countryside, because Hungary is a vast country. And those of you who have travelled in the east of Hungary will just know how agrarian it is. But what they’re going to do, think about it. The Jews, many of them move to Budapest, and it’s the beginnings of the birth of an aggressive capitalism. This is the modernization of an agrarian nation.

And it’s almost as though, and I’ve said this to you before, it’s almost as though the modern world was built for the Jews. By 1910, you’re going to have an absolute explosion into every area of modernity. By 1910, 54% of the owners of businesses in Hungary were Jewish. 85% of the directors and owners of financial institutions are Jewish. 62% of the employees engaged in trading or in any financial sector are Jewish. Should we be surprised? The further east you go, the more agrarian the society is. You have the aristocracy. You only have a small middle class. And as capitalism develops, it’s like these on-the-edge people. You can make the case, can you not, that Jews have survived, moving from country to country, living on their wits. The Jews didn’t ask for emancipation, they didn’t ask for toleration, it was put upon them. And now, all of a sudden, look at that grand synagogue. All of a sudden, Hungary seems to be opening its arms to the Jews. And what an incredible, incredible opportunity there can be. And not only that, we’re going to see that many Jews are going to actually turn to Magyar culture in this very diverse empire. Because who do you think is also coming to Budapest? People from Prague, people from Moravia. It is now the second city of, well, it’s the jewel crown. Vienna, Budapest, then Prague. And there are so many Jews living throughout the empire, and those who really want to make it in modernity are going to come to the cities. Some will go to Vienna, some Jews from Budapest are going to try their luck in Vienna.

Don’t forget, of course, the extraordinary Theodor Herzl and Max Nordau. Many of the intellectuals actually will move into Vienna itself. But what culture should they espouse in Budapest? Some were now turning to Magyar culture. Others, of course, were turning to German culture. So from their traditional role as middlemen, they are now really going to be part of this attempt to create this new society. And what I’m going to do is to illustrate it through the lives of three extraordinary families. Can we please see the first one? Manfred Weiss. Manfred Weiss, yes. Manfred Weiss. In 1897, he has the largest industrial enterprise in the Hungarian part of the empire which he founded in 1897. Now, who was Manfred Weiss? His grandfather, Barukh, was actually a village artisan. Basically, he came from a little village right out on the border. His father came to Pest. His father, Adolf, was involved in the emerging middle industry. Think about Jews as middlemen in the countryside. As we develop, this is industrialization. Look at the dates. Think what’s happening in the rest of the world. Let’s talk about 1897. This is when he creates that incredible steelworks just in the southern part of Budapest, which is becoming an incredibly big important city. He is the largest industrialist in Hungary.

And so the grandfather, a very religious Jew, then the father comes to Budapest and becomes relatively wealthy. Manfred with his brother, Bertold, they start the first canning factory in Hungary. Hungary’s going to become a big exporter. You need canning. So, in the end, he is going to employ over 30,000 people. He’s the founder of the Nationalist Union of Hungarian Industrialists. He’s a huge philanthropist. He gives to the Jewish world, he gives to the non-Jewish world. He sets up a Jewish maternity home for Jews. And his family are going to become one of the most important families in Hungary. And he’s going to be ennobled. But hold that point because I’m going to talk about what happened to his family. Can we go to the next one please? That’s Zsigmond Kornfeld, 1852 to 1900. He was the nephew of Aharon Kornfeld, who was the head of a yeshiva. Because to the east of Hungary, it’s very important to remember this. Those of you who have travelled in that part of the world, it used to be such a Jewish area before the war. And the further east you went, the Jews spoke Yiddish. Part of it was Hasidic, part of it was Misnagdim. But basically you lived according to the Jewish way of life. So he comes from a religious family, a very clever religious family.

At 16 though, he goes to very, very bright man. He goes to work in a bank. And in 1878, Rothschild, the Austrian Rothschild, realised how bright the man was and actually sends him to direct its new acquisition in Budapest, the Hungarian General Credit Bank. And he builds it up. And not only that, this brilliant economist, he aids the government in currency reform and he is really responsible for setting up a proper Hungarian banking system. His interests were incredibly wide. He founded a mining company in Bosnia, a petrol refining company in Croatia. He also founded the Transylvanian Petrol Share Company. I want you to understand, they got the empire at their disposal, these incredibly entrepreneurial characters. He also was involved in the transportation business. He set up a railway between Budapest and Pecs. He also was in involved with the Electric and Transportation Share Company. The electric light has to hit Budapest. The Hungarian River Navigation and Maritime Share Company. He’s president of that. So this is modernity, this is capitalism. This is the world creating a brave new world. And through him, the Hungarian Credit Bank played a significant role in the food business, particularly in sugar. Hungary was a great exporting country. Wheat, sugar. He is involved with the Hungarian Metal and Lamp Manufacturing Company under the bank’s influence. He’s made a baron in 1901. He also became involved with and owned the largest publishing company in Hungary. Now, he was a proud Jew all his life. He rejected an award from the Russian state because of the antisemitism of the czars.

Now what is interesting, his life reminds me very much of Moses Montefiore in London. Moses Montefiore, he lived 101. His dates were 1784 to 1885. He was also involved in multiplicity of interests, insurance, mining all over the world. And it’s fascinating that you have these entrepreneurial Jews who are interlinked. Now, his son, Moricz Kornfeld, married Maryanne Weiss, the sister of Manfred. So these two huge families, incredibly important families, are interrelated. Can we see the third character, please? This is Ferenc Chorin. I hope I’ve pronounced that properly. Now, it’s the name of both the father and the son. So this is the father. And then I’ll be dealing with his son, also Ferenc. His son’s dates are 1879 to 1964. He was the grandson of Rabbi Aaron Chorin of Arad. His father was a doctor and he studied law. That is such a typical pattern that I’ve spent many times, we’ve discussed this many times. The religious grandfather, the son is becoming more modern. The son comes to Budapest. He becomes a doctor. His son becomes a lawyer in Budapest, but he turns to journalism. The family’s already wealthy. He edits a political daily paper, and he’s one of the first Jews to be elected into… The 1867 emancipation, he’s one of the first Jews to be elected into the Hungarian Parliament. He converts to Christianity.

And after converting to Christianity, he becomes a member of the upper house. He also has huge interests in industry. He becomes president of the coal mine company and he develops it into Hungary’s main conglomerate. And let me go on a bit, because he marries the daughter of Manfred Weiss and he played a huge role in the Hungarian economy. So you have these three interlinked families. They are all married to each other and the three of them are really, they are the most important figures in the Jewish world. Now, the fact this man is converted, I’m going to leave that there with a question mark. So… I’m going to jump on because I think it’s important that you know what happened to all these characters. Now, these incredibly important characters and their children. Hungary is going to undergo huge convulsions after the collapse of the Hapsburg Empire and the collapse of Hungary. Hungary’s going to lose most of its land. And there’s going to be a Communist revolution, which I will be talking about today. Following that, there’s going to be a White Terror. The Communist revolution, we’re going to discover, was initiated by a man called Bella Kun, who, in fact, of course you’ve guessed it, was a Jew. There’s going to be a terrible outburst of anti-Semitism. But it’s characters like Ferenc Chorin who was close to Horthy, who made the upper middle class Jews believe that everything was going to be fine. In fact, we are going to discover on Thursday under Horthy, and I’m talking now about before the Second World War, things become pretty terrible. But it’s livable with. Think what Europe’s going to be like in the 30s. There’s going to be an embargo on any immigration. You have the rise of Hitler in Germany.

You have the rise of Mussolini in Italy. You have Franco in Spain, you have Stalin in Russia, you have an America that is isolationist. Plus en change, as the French say. It’s terrifying, isn’t it? Because as William said yesterday, history never exactly repeats itself. But many of these trends are totally predictable. If you study history, these trends are predictable. But in the 30s, because these characters were in, even with right-wing characters, there was this feeling that the upper-middle classes would be okay. But of course, what happens when the Hungarian Alliance fails? What happens is, of course, as I’m sure you all know, Hungary allied itself with Nazi Germany in the war. And even though those Jews who’d made it to Hungary from Poland and Czechoslovakia were not Hungarian citizens, and many of them went into labour gangs, 18,000 of them were murdered by the Nazis. In the main, despite all the anti-Semitic laws, the Jews of Budapest, the Jews of Hungary, were not sent off for murder. But then, in March, 1944, Horthy, he tries to pull out of the alliance because he believes the Germans are going to lose the war. Hitler then sends Eichmann into Budapest. And what happens is that, with Eichmann goes a man called Becher. Becher is the economic advisor to Himmler.

And Himmler, at this stage of the game, and I’ll be doing this in much more detail with you, is hedging his bets. Remember, it’s not just murdering Jews. It’s going to be stealing from the Jews, stealing from their possessions. And he is confronted with three of the richest families in Europe. And what happens to Chorin is he’d actually had a meeting with anti-Nazi Hungarian officials at his castle, these characters all had their own castles, which the Nazis knew about. He was arrested four days after the occupation. He was taken to a camp in Austria where he was beaten up and tortured. I’m talking about Ferenc Jr., of course. But Becher brings him back because Becher wants other things from him, just as he wants from Weiss and just as he wants from Kornfeld. And what he does, he does a deal with them. He allows their families… He gives them laissez passes to Portugal in return for the making over their factories. The art galleries are stolen. The paintings are stolen. And to make matters worse, Becher actually interrogates Chorin in Chorin’s villa in Budapest. What happens is they’re robbed of all their art. They’re robbed of all their possessions, but they are allowed out with relatives and friends. But they have to sign over their factories, their businesses.

Now, why didn’t the Nazis just take them? Because, in theory, Hungary was an ally. So what they did was they signed them over for 25 years. Now, in fact, what happened is they went to Portugal. Chorin Jr. finished up in New York. He tried desperately to get his possessions back. But of course, after the Second World War, there was a revolution and the Communists weren’t going to. But in New York, he becomes a great benefactor of Hungarian Jewry. So look, we cannot predict the future, but what I wanted to show you was three incredibly important families. Because the problem was he was not seen as a Christian by the Nazis anymore than he was by the right-wing Hungarians because he was of Jewish blood. Now, having said that, the Jews of Hungary, before the First World War, this is really a period of great stability for them. If you think about it, Manfred Weiss owns the largest manufacturing enterprise. Later on, of course, it’s going to become a great armament centre. And after the First World War, he turned it to making bicycles and cars. Kornfeld, he dominates transportation and the milling industry. And Chorin is not just a banker, remember, he’s preeminent in coal mining. And, of course, there were other important Jewish bankers. The leading figures on the stock exchange, the National Association of Manufacturers were all Jewish. Jews also joined the rank of landowners. By 1913, 20% of the estates were owned by Jewish families.

They were less prominent amongst the petty bourgeois. But the point is, they’re also very important as journalists, writers, intellectuals. And in fact, Carmen Tisler described the Hungarian Jews as the most industrious and constructive segment of the Hungarian population. And Raphael Patai, he said, he’s a very interesting Hungarian. “By the end of the 19th century, Jews as a group had achieved a position unmatched by co-religionists in any other country.” Important this, because this is before the First World War. What went wrong was the humiliating defeat after the First World War. And the minute I tell you what happens to them, we prejudge. We shouldn’t prejudge because nobody knew what was going to happen next. Who could have predicted what the First World War would have been? And as I said to you, living in this kind of atmosphere, it’s no wonder that so many of them turned to Magyar culture. And also where there were Hungarians in Slovakian or Romanian or Serbian areas, they turned to Magyar culture. So you have pockets of Jews in Slovakia, in Romania, who are pushing Magyar culture. Now, there were 300 Jewish schools at this time. From 1860, the numbers are really going up. And they taught Hebrew, of course, they taught German, and they also taught Hungarian. So in the Jewish schools, they are teaching the three languages.

And by 1880, 57% of the Jewish population, this was a survey, claimed Magyar as their mother tongue. By 1910, it has risen to 70%. Now, there’s a huge division, as I said before. In the capital, in the big cities, it’s Magyar culture or German culture. The further east you go, it’s Yiddish and it’s still the old ways. And, tragically, it’s going to be the Jews of the East, they are the ones that are going to be murdered in Auschwitz because that area was completely decimated by the Nazis in a very short space of time. And, of course, then Budapest was attacked. But there are more survivors from Budapest. Now, what was it really like? Franz Joseph himself, he was never, remember, anti-Jewish. In Vienna, you will remember, he was against the mayor, Karl Lueger. He tried to stop him becoming mayor because of his anti-Semitism. He actually visited the opening of a new rabbinic seminary in 1877. The ennoblement of the Jews becomes quite common. By 1914, there were 346 noble families of Jewish origin. 26 of them were barons. And if you think of the Empress Elizabeth, the Empress Elizabeth who loved… Of course, she was assassinated in 1889. She loved Hungary and she was very pro-Jewish. Heine was her greatest, Heine was the great passion. Heine’s poetry was the passion of her life. So at the top echelons of Hungarian society, there were people who actually admired the Jews, but there was another side as well. And, of course, that was a character called Gyozo Istoczy. And he’s going to become a thorn in the side of the Jewish community. Can we see his face, please?

Yes, there he is. I hope I’ve pronounced it properly. Gyozo Istoczy. Perhaps when Tommy comes back, he can give me a lesson. He was a former county magistrate. He lost his post because he bunked. And this really, he begins to, if you like, pinpoint the mounting resentment amongst the lower gentry against the Jews. And he manages to get himself elected into parliament on an anti-Semitic ticket. Who are the people who are beginning to worry about the Jews? Those who see the dazzling rise. The many teachers, many petty bureaucrats, people who dream of a place in society. You know, it’s interesting, thinking about why England was different because you have this success story in England. But what happened to the lower middle classes in England? This is the great work of Yehuda Bar. What happened to them? They were in India with half a dozen servants. In places like Hungary, the resentment of this dazzling success of a small group of Jews. If you went to Eastern Hungary and saw how the Jews lived there, they lived in primitive conditions. They were poor, they were dirt poor. But that’s not the point. They were visibly prominent in capitalist Hungary. And this makes people jealous. In fact, in 1878, he proposed a Jewish state in Palestine.

He’s a forerunner of Herzl in so far as he said, let’s create a Jewish state in Palestine because then we can get rid of all the Jews. He said, “The Jews, if you think about it.” He said this a big speech in parliament. “They are economic parasites. Yes, they set up the mills, but who is out in the fields working? It is the peasants. They’re the ones who make the profit out of the labour of the peasants. They’re incapable of real patriotism because they are a separate people.” This is the growth of race theory. It’s not just in Vienna, it’s in Budapest. He said, “They are infiltrating the body politic.” I’ve already told you. There are Jews now in parliament. Under the guise of assimilation, Jews converting. Now, to an anti-Semite. Remember, the word Semite is about race. If you convert to Christianity, you are doing it to pervert Christianity. You are doing it to pervert the pure Hungarian. That’s how they get round this inter-marriage business. He said, stop all Jewish immigration now. End it, revoke Jewish emancipation, put a ban on mixed marriages, and set up numerous clauses to restrict the number of Jews in higher education. And then in 1882, there was a blood libel in Tiszaeszlar. It was in Eastern Hungary. And can we see the next slide, please? Yes. This again is a horrible blood libel. It happened in a poor part of Eastern Hungary. A young girl had disappeared. We now know that she was the, there was a terrible paedophile attack. Jews were blamed.

The people were whipped up. It was later found out, of course, to be a complete scandal, a complete calumny. But he used it and he founded the National Antisemitic Party and he won 17 seats in the lower house. Now, let me show you some statistics, please. Can we go on to the next slide, Lauren? Now, here you have it. 1910 Hungarian census Jewish occupation patterns. By 1910, Jews make up 25% of the population of Budapest, okay? Which is the same as New York. Let’s look. 89% of those on the stock exchange, 84% of journalists, 61% of the merchants, 54% of the printers and publishers. And, of course, the largest publishing enterprise I’ve already talked to you about. 50% of the doctors and lawyers, 42% of the innkeepers, 40% of the factory owners, 28% of the butchers, 25% of the musicians, 24% of the bakers, 23% of the actors, 21% of the tailors, 20% of the major landowners. But if you don’t think the Jews are part of it, you’re going to have a real problem. If you think that Jews are a valuable part of society, and there is liberalism prior to the first World War in Hungary and even after the Hungarian Revolution. Nevertheless, this is a picture that appears to be hugely… If you don’t believe that Jews are part of Hungary, then you have an issue. Lauren, I’ve very much miscalculated time. Can we now go on to… What I think I want to do now… This is again from Patai. “In no period in their long history did Hungarian Jews feel as much at home in their homeland and as much at one with their Christian Magyar compatriots and as much part of the great national endeavour to forge ahead and to become a cultural entity in Europe as in the half-century between emancipation and the First World War.” Now, can we go onto the third slide, please of the, I’m going to come back to Bela Kun on that. I want you to have a look at that, please.

This is terribly important. This is what happened to Hungary at the end of the First World War. This is the Treaty of Trianon. It left Hungary as a landlocked state and only 28% of the land that had constituted the pre-war Kingdom of Hungary. There is now a truncated population of 7.6 million, 36% of the pre-war population of 21 million. Now, this is absolutely critical to understanding what happens next. 3.3 million Hungarians were now living in minority status in other states. The treaty limited Hungary’s army to 35,000 men. And, of course, the Austro-Hungarian Navy ceased to exist. The ruler, of course, is going to become Admiral Horthy. He’d been a great admiral in the First World War, but he’s now living in a landlocked kingdom. Now, what happened to the land? Much of it went to the Czechs, the Slovaks, Yugoslavia, and to Romania. And one of the reasons later on that the Hungarians are going to make an alliance with the Germans is the Germans are going to help them get their land back. So… I’m going to give you a few thoughts now. This is from Istvan Bethlen, who is going to be a liberal prime minister in 1922. “The Hungarian middle class lost its role in economic areas. The consequence of this has been that commerce, enterprise, and financial matters are enhanced and are not in harmony with the feeling of the nation and perhaps not desirable.

We must regain for Christianity the position we have lost in our economic and cultural life.” Because what is going to happen, in pre-war Hungary, there was a liberal opinion that believed that as long as Jews wanted to assimilate into Hungarian culture, they would help. They could help, remembering, of course, that Hungary had in its ranks Slovaks, Romanian, Serbs, Croats. But the Jews turned to Hungarian culture. So where there were enclaves of Slovaks or Serbs, they would turn to the Hungarian culture. Now we’re in a truncated country. It’s deprived of its other minorities. So the Jews become the other. And not only that, there’s a minority of them who seem to control a very large share of the national wealth. Now, the truth was that the Jews, out of all proportions of their numbers, had fought in the Hungarian Army, in the Austro-Hungarian, on the side of Austro-Hungary against the allies. Thousands of them had been killed for the Fatherland and now Hungary, there’s been a terrible dismemberment. And not only that, there is a Communist revolution. And the Communist revolution is going to be led by a Jew called Bela Kun. Let’s go back to those pictures, but I won’t talk about him 'til Thursday. Let’s have a look at Bela Kun, if you don’t mind going back. There is Bela Kun. Born Bela K-O-H-N, Kohn. And he’s going to lead a revolution. And, of course, the fact that he became a Communist, he’d thrown away all his Jewishness and he’s going to create something known as the Lenin Boys. Let’s see the picture of the Lenin Boys.

The next slide, if you don’t mind, Lauren. And, of course, who led the Lenin Boys but a Jew called Max Jozsef. And this all ties up with the protocols of the Elders of Zion. Jews are capitalist, Jews are communist. The truth was, as you all know, Jews were individuals. Some were communists, some were capitalists, some just wanted to be left alone. And that was the majority. And against the backdrop, Hungary is in this absolutely acute stage. And who are the only minority, as I’ve said before? It’s the Jews. So obviously what I’ve had to do is to give you an overview, but much of it we’ve covered when we looked at the Habsburgs. And now what I’m going to do on Thursday is to talk about the Red Revolution and then Horthy. We will not be looking at the Kaspar Affair and we will not be looking at the Shoah because we covered it in depth last year. And once the website is up, you’ll be able to get all these presentations. So let me now see how we’re going with questions. Yes, let’s have a look.

Q&A and Comments:

Oh, this is from John Franken. “Last time you told us about Hanussen.” Remember him? Hanussen, of course, was that German Jew, Austrian Jew who taught Hitler really how to be a brilliant public speaker. “My father met him in 1932 as he was taking his doctor of law exam and Hanussen told him what he was reading on the train.” Evidently, Hanussen had some sort of mesmeric power. There’s no question of it.

Oh, this is from Paula. She said, “Lockdown is keeping her sane.” Bless you, Paula. I think it’s keeping me sane.

Oh, Eva, “I will help you.” Oh, thank you Eva. Eva’s offered to help me with my pronunciation. Eva, what would be incredibly useful if you could actually, can you send it to Lockdown University? The names, the pronunciations of the people I’ve mentioned today, and then Lauren could pass them on. That would be so useful.

Oh, this is from Marilyn. Thank you, Marilyn.

Oh, Igor. “Sorry, Trudy leaving for a while. Zelensky is addressing parliament.” Again, what a story that is. And Susanna’s also, Susanna’s happy to help me with Hungarian pronunciation. Thank you. Oh, that’s why. William said it yesterday. “That’s why we love Lockdown.” “The pronunciation is Mohacs.” Thank you Maria. Mohacs.

Q: “To what degree was Jewish ritual practise influenced by the Muslims and vice versa?”

A: Elliot, you’ve asked for something that is very important. I don’t know enough to answer it properly, but I do know people who will. And we will be dealing with this when we go back to the world of Islam.

Q: “By Turkish Empire, do you mean the Ottoman Empire?”

A: Yes, Susan, I misspoke. It’s the Ottoman Empire.

Q: “What happened to all those Muslim countries after the Battle of Vienna? They had much of the east of the country before them.”

A: Oh, the Turkish Empire is going to go on for a long time. And don’t forget, the Turkish Empire controlled all of the Middle East. Then you’re going to see the big powers. I mean, for example, it controlled Egypt until the British arrived with Benjamin Disraeli, bought the Suez Canal. It controlled all of the Middle East. We probably should… Lauren, would you bang me on the head? We need more maps. “Dohany is pronounced Dohany.” Thank you, Kitty.

“Zsigmond, I can just say.” Thank you, Liora. “Pecs is pronounced Pecs.” Thank you. Oh my goodness.

This is from Susanna. “My mother actually worked in Weiss’s maternity hospital.” And Komika is saying, “My mother also worked at the Weiss factory.” This is unbelievable.

Bill, “You’ve done a superb job of describing how Jews started important businesses in Vienna and Budapest. Why there were no Christian doing some.” There were but not that many. Why? Because you’ve got to think about how society is structured. England is different. America is different. Think about England, the nation of shopkeepers. By the time the Jews come in any numbers, England has already had a huge middle class. It’s because there isn’t a big enough middle class. And that’s when the Jews, with their history of merchanting. And also, I mean, if you want to take the ideas of Yuri Slezkine, he said, “You can make the case that Jews, 2,000 years prepared them for the modern world.” They’d had to be mercurial. They were flexible. He said, “They were inflexible in their employment.” Also, they had a reverence for education. Look, even in those poor little villages in Eastern Hungary, the greatest thing for your son is to become a rabbi. Education, education, education. Look at the Weiss family. Look at these families I’ve told you about. And there are many. The grandfather are usually Talmudic scholars or rabbis. The son goes into the profession, the grandson, either into the liberal arts or becomes a huge businessman.

“I recently learned there was a quota on the number of Jews allowed to live in Bohemia and Moravia.” Yes, that was Maria Theresa.

“As well as the copulatio consensus, which decreed that only the firstborn son of each family was given permission to get married. That meant that many Jewish families from these areas migrated to Hungary.” Yes, of course. That’s a very, very good point. And it was also true, by the way, of Berlin when Frederick II issued his charter. See, it was to keep the numbers down. You’ve got to remember. Look, I’ve said this too many times and it’s very painful because, though Christianity is a religion of love, nevertheless, the Jews have a special place in Christianity and they are a problem for Christianity. Look, it’s the deicide. Now, let’s get real. I don’t believe that the majority of Christians went around thinking, well, Jews killed Christ. Of course they didn’t. But there’s this negative stereotype. It was overcome by liberals. Don’t forget that. But nevertheless, in the end, when the poisons came to the surface, I still believe it was the major factor that led to the Holocaust. Of course, there were 10 other factors. If it hadn’t been for the First World War, if it hadn’t been for the total economic collapse, if it hadn’t been for that crazy, charismatic, evil man and all the race theory that went before, if it wasn’t for modern technology, modern bureaucracy. But I still believe the plank that set it up was theological hatred. And that’s the problem. How we deal with it, I don’t know, because we still have a problem with it, in my view. Ferenc. Thank you, Liora. Oh, I can learn this.

Oh, and Tomy, thank you so much. He’s leaving me a telephone number, which I’m going to scribble down. I dunno what it is. If you are educated in this country in some ways, I sometimes think there’s something wrong with my brain. I’m so bad at foreign names and foreign languages. William’s the same. We were talking about it the other day.

“These three families are documented in a wonderful book entitled 'I Kiss.’” Thank you for that. And isn’t it a tragic story? In fact, a feature film loosely based on the family has been made. And I can’t remember the name of it. It is quite often on British television. Can’t remember the name of it. “I Kiss Your Hands Many Times: Hearts, Souls, and War in Hungary” by Marianne, granddaughter of Manfred Weiss. Now that is really worth knowing. Thank you so much. Hindi’s recommended it too.

Q: “What about Kasztner?”

A: The problem, Cosette, is I spent four weeks on Kasztner and I really think if I do it again, people are going to be very cross. Suffice to say, once we have the website, you’ll be able to get all the Kasztner tapes. There’s a lot to say about Kasztner and it’s a very complicated story. And not only that, the man who headed up the rescue committee, Kasztner’s boss, an amazing man called Komoly, we’re very lucky that his nephew, Tommy, is on Lockdown. And maybe when we get a bit further up, Tommy could give us a short presentation. Kasztner was not from a very prominent family, by the way.

This is from Sonja. “We’re working on 1930 Czechoslovak census. About 80% of the Southern Slovakian population are Jews, mostly businessmen, doctors, and small shop owners.” Now, I’d love to know where that, I’d like to know more about that, Sonja.

Anita, “I have many Hungarian friends who emigrated to Montreal and Toronto. And it struck me that all the European immigrants post World War II that we know, they were the most likely to try and hide their Jewish identity.” I can’t comment on that, Anita. I know that happens to Hungarian Jewry was extraordinarily appalling, just as it was to every Jewry. But the point was because it was so late, there were more Hungarian survivors than from any other of those who were actually attacked by the Nazis, percentage wise. Thank you, Esther. Thank you, Thibault.

Just one comment. “The Jews in Hungary also paid an important and active role in many segments of life, academia and business in the countryside, away from Budapest.” Sergei, yes, of course they did. And of course, if you think about it, there were five brilliant young boys who went to the same Lutheran school and they all finished up in America. I’m talking, of course, about Leo Szilard. I’m talking about Johnny von Neumann. There’s a brilliant new book about him. And they were called the Martians.

Edmund Teller. Wigner. They revolutionised modern physics. And Johnny von Neumann is, of course, known as the genius’ genius. Einstein said he was the cleverest man he ever knew. And because I’m Jewish and because I have to sometimes bring in humour, there’s a wonderful story about Johnny von Neumann who, of course, was born in Budapest. Evidently he knew the Hungarian telephone directory off by heart by the time he was eight. Evidently, he was with Bronowski. They had a debate. And at the end of the conversation, Bronowski, they had a really fierce debate and they both went off to bed and Bronowski was really mulling it over. And at 2:00 in the morning, he realised that von Neumann was right. And he phoned him up at 2:00 in the morning and said, “You are right and I’m wrong.” And Johnny von Neumann uttered the immortal words, “Only ever call me if I’m wrong.”

Q: “Were people allowed to buy land?”

A: Yes, of course, after 1867.

Q: And this is from Judy. “Speaking of the website, is this going to be next year in Jerusalem?”

A: No, no, no. I’ve already had consultations. Why they consult me? I don’t know, about website design, but they’re very kindly. They’ve included me on it. And Lauren knows that we really are working hard at it. But we’ve got lots of plans for the website. We have incredible number of films. And I believe it’s going to be, you know, we’re going to try and clear as much copyright as possible. And I’m very lucky. By an accident of history, I have one of the best Jewish archives in my home of Jewish films in the English language, which I’ve been collecting for years and years and years and years. And a very good friend of mine has offered to digitalize them. So we’ll have to clear copyright for some. So you’re going to have a Jewish film archive. There’s going to be a chatroom for you to discuss. It’s going to be marvellous. And Wendy is very, very thorough. She wants it to be perfect. So yes, it’s not next year in Jerusalem. Besides, you’re in Jerusalem now, Judy. It happened. “Did the Ottomans welcome?”

Q: This is Robert. “Did the Ottomans welcome the Spanish Jews in 1492 to help as translators and occupiers?”

A: Now, it’s fascinating. Not only did they help, it was 1492, Robert, they sent ships. Some of the great entrepreneurs of the Turkish Empire were Jewish, but they also had an entrepreneurial class themselves. It was a different story at that period. You know, do you want a rule of Jewish history? When the outside world is strong and particularly untroubled, and when it’s at its zenith, Jews can be very, very useful and they can fit in and they can be part of it. It’s only when society’s under threat, and remember, the Jews are the other. This is before the 20th century. It’s before the great migrations of peoples. Thank you, Carla. Thank you.

Oh, this is from Linda. “The American heirs to Manfred Weiss have been suing the Hungarian government for the return of their artwork with no results.” Yes. That is a terrible, terrible story. You know, the pillaging of all those Jewish collections, it’s the venality, the horror. Don’t forget, Hungary went communist after the war. And that’s another problem because, in order… You know, of course the the worst perpetrators were shot. But in order to keep a country together, so many fascists were accepted. They had to be. So another story. A list of the words has to be audio and not in writing. Ah, maybe you could send your email. Yes, of course. I’m wondering if you could transliterate it for me. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Eva, for that.

Thank you, Elliot. “The Ashners and the Goldbergers,” said Thibault. Yes, of course. I could only talk about some. Yes, they were a very important part.

“The movie ‘Sunshine.’” Yes, Hannah. I was thinking of another movie about the Weiss family. Of course “Sunshine” is very important and it’s brought to mind something else. Jews were very important in the Hungarian fencing team. Jews as sportsman. Jews as scientists. Jews as writers. I mean, the list of Jews who made it to America. There was a huge immigration out in the turn the century. I mean think about, I’m thinking about some of the great film men. I’m thinking about Laszlo Biro. You heard of the Biro pen? That’s another story altogether.

“There are many immigrants who are not religious, but there are many who I know who are ultra Orthodox.” Yes, my partner. He was American, but half his family were Hungarian, the other half Polish. They were Hasidic Jews from Munkacs. Totally religious. Yeah. In Budapest, it was more Neolog. “Sunshine” is a very important movie as well.

Josephine, “We had a Hungarian survivor friend who told us that after her first day at school, all the other children went to the priest’s house for Catholic lessons. They came out and started throwing stones and shouting, ‘You killed Jesus Christ.’” Do you want me to be amusing again? If it is amusing. Lenny Bruce, you know the great American satirist. He once wrote on a wall, “I admit it, I killed him.”

This is from Dennis. “I recommend Katie Martin’s book, ‘The Great Escape,’ about nine Budapest Jews who made enormous contribution to society. Leo Szilard, Edmond Teller, Johnny van Neumann, photographers Capa and Kertesz, filmmakers Korda and Curtiz, ‘Casablanca,’ and writer Koestler.” And that, Dennis, is to name but few. It depends entirely on what discipline you are interested in. I personally am fascinated by the Martians. Unfortunately, I know very little about what they did, but I know a lot about their lives and they were a fascinating bunch of characters. And, of course, Edmund Teller. If you think about “Dr. Strangelove,” that satirical film, he is meant to be the model for Dr. Strangelove. “You have Orthodox Hungarian Jews.” Yes, you have all sorts of Jews. Thank you, Shosh.

And this is from Susan. “My grandfather had a large Tokaj farm in Hungary.” Yes, of course. They were in the wine growing business as well. And they were the innkeepers. That’s what happens when you have a peasant society and a land-owning class. You have to build up a middle class. Yeah. Yes, of course Jews could be wealthy and religious. Yes, I’m sorry about the website taking so long, but what I do know… Katie Martin, not Martin. Thank you. Thank you, Katie. Yes, it will happen. I mean, when Wendy says something’s going to happen, believe me, it will happen. “I would love to go on a Lockdown tour of Jewish Budapest.” Look, who knows what’s possible! Patrick and I used to run tours all over Jewish Europe together. And I know that David could be involved. I mean, who knows what the future can hold.

This is from Tony. “My great-grandfather, Joseph Pollat, was born in Madar. At 20, he was discharged from the Imperial Royal Command. In 1865, he was allowed to own land. By 1876, he left for Vienna, but moved to the UK where in 1920 he died at the German Hospital. But we cannot find out where he’s buried, possibly in the ground. Does anyone know of the hospital? Born in, he was discharged. He died at the German Hospital in Hackney.” Where are the grounds? Look, I dunno if Arlene’s on today, but she’s a brilliant genealogist. Get in touch with… You need an English genealogist. Just post it on Lockdown. Someone will sort it for you. Okay.

Q: “What happened to the culture of the countries which banished the Jews?”

A: Yes, of course there were so many. Look, if you want to get into the Nobel Prize game, Marika, 24% of all Nobel Prizes have been awarded to people of Jewish birth. “Now they may mean Israel and America.” Yes. What is it about the Jews? You know, I think it’s because we are driven. It’s our history that makes us driven. What happened to the cultures of the countries that banished the Jews, I couldn’t possibly comment. I know what I think.

Yes, Paul Erdos, one of the most important mathematicians of the 20th century. Also a Jew from Budapest. I’ve been told by Talmudists that a Talmudic education is very good for mathematics. Now, because of course they had to study mathematics. Rothschild, the original Rothschild, I’m talking about the father. He was a great mathematician. Look, it’s a very… “Do you believe in genetic inheritance?” I don’t know.

“Hungary played Russia at the Olympics in Australia. There was blood in the water by the end of the game. No love lost between the two countries.” That’s from Monty.

“Please do not stop when COVID is over.” Sue, I don’t think we have any intention of doing so. And I still think we’ll call it Lockdown University. That’s what Wendy wants to do. Why would we stop? We love you. We are having, you know, we are enjoying ourself, if I can call it enjoyment. It gives us all a purpose. And, you know, I think once the website is up, perhaps we can get bigger and bigger because what we are offering is a free education. And the other point is that I’m getting offers now from extraordinary individuals. Like for example, Ava. I was going to be interviewing Rob Rinder on Purim. Unfortunately he’s going to be on the Poland-Ukrainian border. But he said when he’s back, he’ll come and talk to us about it. There are lots of wonderful people out there. I met Malcolm Rifkind at an event where he was speaking and I’ve asked him if he would come in and give us a talk on current affairs. And Wendy’s got a whole stable of people in America. So hopefully we will get, you know, we will develop. Anyway, I think I better stop.

Oh, oh, this is from Maria. I’ve got to bring this in.

“My father went to the same Lutheran school as all those mentioned. One of his best friends was Janusz Hasanja.” Hope I pronounced that. “A Nobel Prize winner, later professor of economics at Berkeley.” Look, this is what happens. They enriched Britain. They enriched America.

Look, Michael Curtiz, just think of some of the films he made. Think of some of the musicians. Whatever discipline… Will our children, what will happen to our children? That’s another one. Will we become too comfortable in the West or will it become edgy again? Debate. Yes.

“Houdini was born in Budapest, part of the Weiss.” I don’t think he was part of the Weiss family, Simon. It’s spelled differently. And I don’t think he was, but what an interesting man. Anyway, I think I better stop there, Lauren.

Thank you very much everyone, and we will continue with Hungary on Thursday. God bless, everyone.