Jeremy Rosen
Pesach: How to Understand the Haggadah

Jeremy Rosen - Pesach: How to Understand the Haggadah

- Ladies and gentlemen, I am going to start off with a very broad introduction, and then I’m going to focus specifically on the Seder. Now, it is possible that you might have a Haggadah in front of you. If you do have a Haggadah in front of you, that would be very helpful. But if not, I suggest, if you have access to the internet, as clearly you do, you should look up a place called Sefaria, S-E-F-A-R-I-A, dot org, sefaria.org. And on the top left-hand side, you will see a little dropdown menu. And if you drop down that menu and look for something called liturgy, which is a section that deals with prayer, and open that, you’ll see the Haggadah there, the text of it for you to follow. So that might be a help, but if not, don’t worry about it, because we’re going to go through the main ideas of the text without following the text too closely. Pesach in the Torah was divided into two sections: what happened in the temple and what happened at home. And the Bible tells the story that just before the Exodus, they all had to have this family celebration with a poor little sheep or a goat that was slaughtered and they sat round the table and you did it en famille, in the family, at home. At this stage, there’s no other Jewish law whatsoever. But what the Torah tells us about this meal together is not only that you should talk about what’s about to happen, the Exodus, but you should bring your children into it. You should be talking to them, getting them to ask you questions and giving sensible answers. But it’s left very, very loose, without any more clarification. Some people think that Pesach originally was only meant for one occasion, the Pesach of Egypt, but the Torah itself says this is something that you’ve got to go on for future generations.

And so somewhere, years and years later, the idea of formally establishing this meal, the Seder, the Seder night, and Seder literally means the order of things, developed. So that by the time you get to the Talmudic era, the era of the Greco-Roman culture, you have the Mishnah, which is the first part of our law, published ‘round about 120, in which it talks about four cups of wine, four stages. And these four cups of wine are the four languages of redemption that are mentioned in the Torah. I took you out, I redeemed you, I rescued you, I brought you out of this mess. And the whole of this four-cup cerebration is expanded in the text of the Mishnah and the Gemara, and it starts off like this. The first thing you do is you bring in the wine, and with the wine what you do is celebrate the day, And then after that, a table is brought in to the people sitting there and they start dipping in greens, in herbs. Now what all this peculiarity is is in fact the perfect mirror of a symposium. Symposium, started in Greece, was a opportunity where people would get together, to celebrate, to drink and to eat, but would also discuss important philosophical-theological ideas. And at the same time as they were discussing this, there were breaks for entertainment, song, for poetry, something to interrupt the flow. Then there’d be a break. The little table in front of you would be removed and another one would be brought up with the next course. And the whole series would be repeated with a cup of wine and with a discussion, an opening of the theme, and then carrying on with a bit of poetry, a bit of law, all these things added in exactly the way the non-Jewish world would’ve done in the Greco-Roman times. So one has to bear in mind when trying to understand how the Haggadah works is that it is echoing a symposium.

So we start off with the first cup of wine. Before that, of course, we now have what we call the Seder plate, but I’m going to come back to that in a minute. But the first cup of wine is followed, which all festivals start with by thanking God for the occasion, specifying what the occasion is, thanking God and thanking God for being alive to celebrate it. But here, what is unusual is that no sooner as you have you made this Kiddush, the opening statement, you have a declaration, and the declaration, unlike almost everything else, is in Aramaic. And the declaration goes like this: this in front of us is the bread of affliction. And we have suffered and we’ve survived to come to this particular moment. But anybody who wants to come and share should share. If anybody’s hungry, come to our table, be part of the family, get involved with us. This year we might be in exile, but next year, please, God, we’re going to be in Jerusalem. And so you have the clue to the Haggadah, the three important elements, the historical element of the past, the existential element of who are we now? Are we free? Are we slaves? What is our state now? And then looking forward to the future, these three different levels. Now, after that happens, the person conducting the Seder washes his hands, which is unusual, 'cause everybody normally washes hands before eating a meal, and one person does it. And there is a ceremony called karpas. And karpas involves bringing in some greens, some herbs of different kinds, anything from lettuce to potatoes, and dipping it in salt water. And then, having done that, the table is taken away. Now everybody goes, “What the heck is going on here?” And that is the beginning of the questioning. As Talmud says, the whole point of doing something as unusual as this is for children to ask why? Why are we doing this?

And not only that, but the Talmud says: the moment a child asks why, you don’t need to ask any more questions, 'cause that’s going to open the debate to the whole historical issue. So this first ceremony after kadeish is what is called urchatz washing. And then we have the karpas. After the karpas, we take, there’s a variation of customs, so many variation of customs, some have three matzos on a pile, some only two. We take the middle one if there’s a middle one, and one of them is divided in half and put half of it away. And this is what is going to be called the afikoman. Afikoman is a very, very strange word. It’s clearly a Greek word, and it comes from the word komioi, which has several meanings. One of them is desert and the other is night-clubbing, going out to a party afterwards. But essentially, it is going to mark the end of the ceremony. And this one piece is then taken, it is hidden, and as you know, the role of the children is to try and find it, because if you can’t find it at the end of the Seder, you can’t get any further and proceed. So this afikoman together with a question is clearly aimed at getting the kids involved, education, because to talk about something is one thing, but experiencing it is different, and goes on to say, and you should have plenty of nuts and goodies and cookies and candies around throughout for the kids to be able to cope with the long discussion and the procedure and participate in the day. And after that, we start with what is called magid, the recitation of the Haggadah. And this has this important issue repeated again, of this is the bread of affliction that our parents had in Egypt. But we then go on to talk about Mah Nishtanah. Why is this night different from all other nights? The most famous question.

And as the Amoraim says, Mishnah Gemara says, the eldest son should ask the question. If the eldest can’t ask the question, then the wife should ask the question. And if the wife can’t answer the question, then the host answers the question for himself. But we’ve already said clearly that anybody who asks the question doesn’t have to go through these four questions. But we have Mah Nishtanah, and Mah Nishtanah is repeated in the Talmud of Babylon, the Talmud of Jerusalem with certain variations. The question is obviously why are we having the matzah? Why are we having the bitter herbs? But then the question also applies to why, in temple times, do we have the pascal lamb, which we don’t have anymore, which is why then we have alternative questions. One alternative question is this idea of why we recline. And the other one is why we dip. And again, reclining and dipping are part of the ceremony of a symposium. After the Mah Nishtanah is asked, the text then starts giving an answer, and answers one of two. One answer is that we must remember that we were slaves, and therefore, have to appreciate our freedom and appreciate the freedom of others. So it’s, if you like, to do with national identity; this is our nation, this is our history, this is our past. But having said that, we then have what one would call a dialectic. What do I mean by that? Within the Jewish tradition, there are three strands. There is, on the one hand, the strand of Jewish law. On the other there is the strand of what is called midrash, analysing our texts, discussing our texts, trying to make sense of our texts. And then you have something called aggadah, which is a catch-all which includes historical narrative, stories of the rabbis, various other parts of a culture that developed over a long period of time. These three elements are now developed in the course of the Haggadah.

Now it’s interesting, all this process doesn’t appear till many years after the Talmudic period. The Talmud mere gives you the essential basis that you come together, you have the wine, you start doing strange things to get people to ask questions, you ask 'em to get questions. You don’t have to go to a fixed format or to ask the question, but the one thing you have to do is include in your discussion three things: pesach, matzah, and maror. And once again, this three number comes in. Pesach is, of course, in their terms to do with the sacrifice, but also the occasion of Passover. Matzah is to talk about the bread or the food that we had in Egypt, and I will need to explain that in a minute. What is matzah and how does it come about? And the third is maror, that life can be bitter. We may be in a happy position now being able to celebrate a Seder, but very often we were not. And so you are looking at, if you like, the three strands of life. But these three strands of life are also connected, as I suggested, to past, present, and future. So having entered into the issue of what are we going to talk about, we are presented with what is a midrash. That is to say, this is a nice story, it doesn’t necessarily have to have been true. And it’s particularly interesting, because this midrash talks about five rabbis sitting in Bnei Brak. Now, we can already identify the timescale, because one of the rabbis is Rabbi Akiva, who joined in the Kokhba, Bar Kokhba revolution against Rome a long time after the destruction of the temple. Bar Kokhba revolution, 134, roundabout. And Rabbi Akiva is living apparently in Bnei Brak, and invites four other of the most important rabbis of that time to come and join him. Now, of these other rabbis, some of them were not living any anywhere near Bnei Brak, they were living in Lod or in Yavneh or in the Galilee, but they were all part of the intellectual and rabbinic authority of that particular moment in time.

But they were all very, very different both religiously and politically. So for example, whereas Bar Kokhba was very much in favour of the revolution against Rome, most of the others were not. So it was rather like the political situation you have in Israel today. Some of these rabbis were rich, some of these rabbis were poor, some of these rabbis were conformist, and some of them were non-conformist, some of them were priests, some of them were layman, some of them were born into aristocratic families, and others were not. And so you have the whole spectrum of rabbinic opinion at this moment apparently all coming together to sit at a table at one time and to discuss coming out of Egypt all night long until their pupils come and remind them it’s time for service. And you might be familiar with a famous joke, given that Bnei Brak in Israel today is such a centre of passionate and committed religious study with lots and lots of students that, at this particular time, it was typical then and now of students thinking they know better than their teachers. But I find this such a relevant point now in the world in which we live, because, look at around us, look at all these arguments going on between the left and the right and what’s right for Israel and what’s not and what’s religious and what isn’t and what is strict and what is not. And yet, despite it all, these guys, just as divided as we were, were able to sit around a table together and discuss things in a civilised manner. So that is already presenting the scene, if you like, for the Seder. Now, having talked about these great rabbis, we then move onto a theological issue, a theological issue which seems rather strange, a debate about whether we should say the shema and how we should say it.

So it’s really got nothing to do with, in a sense, the Haggadah, except, however, there was a debate at the time of the Talmud as to what matters more: study or prayer. And the rabbis were divided pretty equally over study or prayer. And so here we are in the middle of study and being reminded that important as study is, there’s a significant alternative option if you want to choose it. And this is a debate about what does it mean to say the shema? Does it mean now? Does it mean for life at this moment? Or does it mean something to do with the future and to do with afterlife? And the debate really revolves simply around the the interpretation of a word, and the word is night or day. And what do we mean by night? Do we mean night in this world or do we mean night in another world? You might think this is recondite and you might think this is unimportant, but it does raise issues that the rabbis debated. They debated is there an afterlife. They debated is the Messiah going to come. All these things are arguments that you will find in the Talmud and part of our study programme. Now, having then talked about those particular rabbis, then the narrative goes on to talk about four sons. And these four sons are paradigms of the sort of people you might have around your table. You might have the person who is a scholar, you might have the person who doesn’t care at all, he’s only invited there to please his parents, might be an atheist or might be an anti-Zionist or might be anything that, if you like, is a non-establishment point of view. Then you have the people who simply don’t know what’s going on. And finally, you have the people who are too young to know what’s going on. And so what again is interesting is that these four people or these four sons, if you like, they’re sitting at the table with you. So the whole point is you’ve got to have people asking different questions, sitting at the table with you.

This is essential for what the Seder is supposed to mean. So we then move on from this to our first song. And so here we have a break. Listen, we’ve been talking a little bit too much, let’s have a break. The Talmud is very clear that in between these different breaks and cups, you go on drinking a bit more if you want to. And there is a tradition to make sure that you go on noshing noshing if you want to, because you have still all the little vegetables and other things that are around there before you, even though you haven’t come to the actual ceremony itself. Now, having done that, we come to the next response, answer number two to the question of why are we here and why is this night different from all other nights? And this second version comes that go out and learn, is that once upon a time, people try to destroy us, different kinds of different people, even going back to Labon who chased after Jacob and tried to get rid of him. The idea of people tried to destroy us isn’t just that, it’s that we lived once upon a time as idol-worshipers ourselves, so that we shouldn’t want to think that we are special in some way. We’re not special. We are fortunate to have been given a tradition and this tradition has enabled us to carry on in a particular way. But nevertheless, the theme of national identity is balanced by the idea that we shouldn’t get too ahead of ourselves to think we’re any way inherently better. We were pagans, just as many people were. At this stage, we now move on to a part that you are quite familiar with, probably, if you know anything about this, and that’s the 10 plagues. And we’re introduced to the 10 plagues as, again, a combination of reference to the history of our experience combined with study, but also combined with a different moral lesson.

So the 10 plagues are numbered and mentioned and the custom is to dip out some wine, either with one’s finger or pour the cup out at each plague as it’s mentioned. And there are different explanations for this, but the most common explanation is that our freedom came about as a result of the suffering of others, and therefore, we have to recognise that others have suffered in the cause of our freedom and we have, therefore, to reduce our pleasure as a result of this. Other people explain it not in terms of a global concept but more in terms of a personal concept that we think in terms of those people who aren’t with us now at the Seder night. But then, when we talk about these plagues and repeat them in the form of an acrostic, we launch into a kind of a rabbinic casuistic game. And this game is to say, look, if at the sea it says in the Bible it was a finger of God, and at, sorry, in Egypt, the plagues were a finger of God, and at the sea, when they crossed over it, was the hand of God, if there were 10 plagues with one finger, then surely there going to be many more if it was a hand. And so there must have been 50 plagues or maybe 500 plagues. And you may ask and you may wonder: who’s interested and does it make any difference? But the fact is that it does, because this is an expression of the method of study that has really kept us going throughout the thousands of years when we were excluded from other forms of study. And what is the driving force of the religious world today is the way we pore over texts and we play games with them, we tell jokes through them.

So a text is not just something to be taken at face value, but it’s an opportunity to entertain, to show how clever you are, to show how interested you are. And so this theme runs through and the reason why I’m mentioning this and emphasising it is because the assumption is that we have to get through the whole of the Haggadah. And as you know, in most places most people are not interested in getting through the whole of the Haggadah. They want to get on with the food and they don’t make sense and they’re being preached to and they’re being read to and they’re bored, which is why, interestingly, the Talmud says that, you know, once you’ve asked a question, the only thing, and once you’ve mentioned pesach, matzah, and maror and explained roughly what they’re there for, the one thing you have to say is, , God took us out. We were once enslaved and now we’re free. We have been oppressed and now we’re free. That is what you have to say. So there is a strong argument to say that it’s more important not to follow the whole of the text, to cut out things if people are getting bored, but you have to keep them involved by engaging them in discussion. And this discussion can come from many sources, and really, everybody present has to, if you like, chip in with at least one good question. And it could be a political one, it doesn’t have to be a religious one, it could be a social one. Then we have another song, again, the entertainment. Dayenu, thank you, God, for saving us. And then we move on to this discussion of why we are here, and this famous statement that a man, a woman, a child has to say, in every generation, they have to say, I was there.

Now, I was there. Of course, you weren’t there, But I was there indicates that there is a drama to this, there is a play to this. In sum, the Sephardi, particularly communities, they process around the table carrying the matzahs. In others, they are lashed with leaks and other vegetables in order to experience what it’s like to be enslaved and attacked in all this. So just as on Yom Kippur, we play like in a way, what’s it like to be judged standing before God and judged? Now, during the Passover, we’re playing the game. What’s it like to be free? To come out of Egypt? And interestingly enough, Rabbi Gamaliel, who was the head of the academy at this particular moment, had a servant called Daru. Now unfortunately, Jews did have servants and did have slaves, although the Bible is full of laws that are very, very strict about how you treat them and how, for example, you mustn’t hand over fleeing slaves and that if you free a slave, you must help make sure that slave can cope. And not only that, but if the slave is a non-Jewish slave, initially he’s welcomed into the Jewish community and when he or she is freed, they automatically become a full paid-up member. And so Rabbi Gamaliel is reported several times of having a slave with him who he needs to make up the minyan. And so he frees him on the spot and he suddenly becomes one of them. And here you have another story which says that Rabbi Gamaliel had this slave called Daru.

And he said to him, “Don’t tell me. And if I were to free you now, what would you feel like?” He said, “Oh, I’d be so happy I’d, I’d praise you, I’d thank you.” “A-ha,” said Rabbi Gamaliel. So now we were freed. So we have to thank God. And so this is the, again, maaser, the narrative, the story that indicates a certain moral idea. And then we have what is called Hallel. Hallel is a series of psalms and these psalms are are told, are recited throughout the year on happy days, on Rosh Hodesh, on festivals, there’s a full Hallel and a short Hallel and they are made up of these psalms you’ll find in the prayer book. And that’s where we say a little bit, just two of them, two of the paragraphs just to thank God. And then this leads up to the break with a final blessing to thank God for redemption, to thank God for the feeling and the genius and the excitement of freedom. And then we turn to the second cup of wine. We’ve had our first cup of wine and now we have the second cup of wine. And having had the second cup of wine, we now get, actually, to the meal itself. And the meal itself starts off with washing hands, as we do before any meal. And then we have the motzi, the blessing over the bread, but it’s not bread, it’s now the matzah. And after the matzah, we have the maror, the bitter herbs. And after that we have the custom of Hallel, who got two bits of matzah, had within it some bitter herbs, and ate them as a kind of a sandwich, although they didn’t have sandwiches in those days, not before the Earl of Sandwich, but there was the kind of the sandwich of combination.

And there are lots of different customs as to what the maror should be. Is it horseradish? Is it lettuce? And in different customs, different places. And then we have the charoset, which isn’t actually, if you like, a law as such, but according to the Talmud, it is there to reduce the pain of the bitter herbs. So you should mix the bitter of herbs with the charoset. Some people also mix the sandwich with the charoset and others don’t. And that is the prelude to a banquet like any other banquet. There is in every community a range of different customs. And so when it comes to the size or the amount that you have to eat, what is the minimum? What is the maximum requirement? How long does it take for you to consume it? Can you do it in bits and pieces? How dangerous should the maror be or should it be soft? All these things are matters that are discussed, and you may think that it is casuistry, and in a way, it may well be, but it’s a way of showing that you care. It’s a way of showing how involved you might be in what is going on under these conditions. So after this second cup and the meal goes through, it ends with the afikoman, the afikoman being produced by the children if the boss can’t find it, and they can hold him to ransom and refuse to give it back if he doesn’t provide them with what they want. Having had that, in a sense, it ends the ceremony of the debate. We’ve now no longer into debating, we’re into another phase, which really is mediaeval and the latest to add to the Seder. After the fourth cup of wine and after the introductory prayer, you have the statement that , this is the end of the paschal ceremony, and the famous phrase, , next year, please, God, we should be in Jerusalem.

That then leads into all these songs. There are a whole lot of different songs, they’re poems. Most of them are based on non-Jewish sources, whether “Green Grow the Rushes, Oh” or “Who Knows One, I Know Two,” these are even “Haggadiah” itself, of a little goat that was eaten by the cat. All these are borrowed from outside of Judaism and introduced because they are popular songs. And the idea of singing popular songs, I suppose with a moral at the end and with some educational content, because from just being random and, if you like, either Christian-based or secular-based, they all have a Jewish theme and these can go on for as long or as little as you choose and as you want. But that’s where the Seder ends and people like to extend it and the debate late into the night, into the early morning, just as the rabbis in Bnei Brak did in order to show how much they care and how it matters to them. But to conclude, the issue essentially is the question of how is this so significant to us and why has this become, after probably Yom Kippur, the most important festival of the Jewish calendar. And I think one of the reasons is because it is trying to say, look, it’s practise that counts, it’s practise, ideas are very important. But the more you can tie ideas to action, to doing things, the more you cement your commitment to a tradition and to a culture. If your culture is just an abstract concept of being nice, of loving your neighbour as yourself, which everybody could agree to, what it is that defines the Jewish side is, on the one hand, this emphasis on study and learning together and analysing the text and showing how much the text matters to you, because you can find significance in every single word.

And apart from that, you are involving the whole of your family. Alas, nowadays the whole of the family is not involved, although as you just heard from the interruptions we had to put up with, the family is there looking in the background, working very hard to change the pots and pans and clean the whole thing up and get ready. Although, so many people now just take a cruise or go to a hotel and don’t have to do anything of that. Now, it doesn’t make them any less than that but it’s a sign of the times. And I think in certain respects, it’s a shame when you can’t experience or at firsthand the effort that goes in. So now having presented my Rosen take on the Haggadah, I’d like to find out what we’re going to start talking about in terms of any questions you want to ask about Pesach, about strictness, about leniency, anything’s open for chat.

Q&A and Comments:

So let’s start by finding the first question. Thank you, Dawn. Thank you, Jennifer. And thank you Julius for Yom Kippur.

Alfred, “One Greek root meaning of afikoman is from the word , to arrive, literally, I have arrived, with a meaning, I’ve arrived at the end of the meal and now back to the serious stuff.” It’s implied. Yes, that’s absolutely true. I mean, like all these things, there are so many different interpretations and so many different attempts to derive the origin of words, even to say that afikoman comes from the Aramaic afik, take out, man, the food, the manna. So they’re endless, but thanks for mentioning that one. It’s another legitimate one.

“Interesting that Gamaliel is not included.” Yes, there’s a limit to the number of people who are included, but, of course, the idea of pesach, matzah, and maror does mention Gamaliel. I think what you might be referring to is the fact that Moses isn’t mentioned. Moshe is not mentioned once in the Haggadah. And that’s an amazing idea, because he was so central to the Exodus. And again, I think this reiterates the idea that we are saying don’t focus on the personality, don’t try to create saints or try to create people to worship. This is all God. You have a direct line to God. You don’t need a Moses, or when this was written, you don’t need a Jesus figure, you can go direct. I think that’s the reason allied to the fact of, as you know, we don’t know where Moses was buried, because they didn’t want to start worshipping his grave.

Esther, “I like the idea that the Haggadah changed the gender in the fourth son to feminine, to treat child with kindness, like a mother with a child.” I think that’s right. But let me make two points. One of them is, gender we now interpret in a different way. And if we assume because we talk about God as he, we forget that God is also referred to as she. And in the opening of Genesis, when we talk about the spirit of God, it’s in the feminine, not in the masculine. So these strict differences are not very clear. Not only that, but women and men were equally invited to come to Mount Sinai, to gather when the Torah is being read and studied, that they were equal citizens. And the term Ben means children as well as a son. It does not just mean a child, a male child. So there’s a lot of cultural complication in the distinction. So I agree, translating our is wrong. It could just, as we be , children, four types of children, male, female, transsexual, whatever you have.

Q: “Isn’t Elijah opening the door?”

A: Well, at the end of the Seder, we open the door. Elijah is supposed to come in and rescue us. And, of course, as you know, it’s a very common custom for people to… There’s this cup for Elijah standing on the table and fathers like to jig the table a bit to see it shaking and say, “See, see! Elijah’s come and he’s drinking!” Of course, it’s not. But after Elijah, and this is something I missed out in my talk, after the cup of Elijah, you have the famous phrase, , pour out your wrath over the children, over, sorry, over the nations of the world. But it doesn’t say over the nations of the world, full stop. It goes over the nations of the world who despise you, who hate you, and want to get rid of you. And we ask God to prevent them from doing this and remove the hatred. And it’s so ironic that the Jews of Germany in the 19th century were so upset by this, 'cause they felt it was an attack on every non-Jew, that they tried to remove it from the text of the Haggadah and did for most of their texts. And it’s ironic that those very people are the ones that suffered most from the Holocaust. So I think we have to see it in the context of Jewish suffering. We have to see it in the context of specifically those people who are trying to destroy us, and for thousands of years, unfortunately, they have.

“It seems you’ve been describing an non-Ashkenazi Haggadah in some of what you mentioned as far as the .” Yes, I’ve tried to bring in a range of different ideas, because Haggadah is not only the Ashkenazi, but there are lots of different customs around the world. There isn’t only one version that hasn’t variations in the same way that there is a common core as we have in prayer, in the prayer books. There are different prayer books throughout the world in different Jewish communities, but they all have the same core context. Next year, in a free, democratic Jerusalem, next year in a free, democratic country anywhere. I don’t know any free countries anywhere.

Q: Mark Tannenbaum, “Could you elaborate as to why our pagan history is part of the Seder? I don’t understand its relevance to the Exodus.”

A: Yes, I think that’s a good question. I think its relevance is to tell us that don’t think you’re so special. The pagan world was a pagan world that did not respect individuals, that believed in child sacrifice, something we have been freed from and we are proud that we are freed from, but we shouldn’t think that everybody is like that. Not everybody worships idols in the non-Jewish world, although in our day and age, what idols are is debatable. You might argue that social media is a form of idolatry, but nevertheless, it’s a way of saying, look, this is an issue of theology as well, of monotheism in contrast to idolatry. So don’t forget, that’s at the core of this.

Q: Esther asked, “Passover after the first sunset in history, we pass over just like Joseph and Jacob.” That’s a nice idea. But it’s very interesting that there are two terms used for the festival in the Torah. One of them, Chag Ha'matzot, the festival of matzahs, and the other is Chag Ha'Pesach. What’s the difference between them?

A: Well, Pesach refers to God passing over or protecting us. Matzot refers to us eating matzah, and there’s lots of interpretations as to what matzah is. It’s described as lechem oni, the bread of poor people Or is it the bread of slaves? Or is it the bread that oni also means the bread we talk about a great deal. And so this idea of passing over is just one aspect of the Seder. The other one is Chag Ha'matzot.

“Thank you for sharing your knowledge.” Thank you, Sally.

Marilyn, “The freedom of generations is often proceeded by a generation that fought for freedom.” Yes. I mean, I see this at the moment. There’s a huge difference between the generation that experienced the Holocaust or the generations that have actually experienced war and those generations that didn’t experience it and didn’t have to fight for their survival. And they’re the ones who, in general, are least committed to the cause of Jewish survival. Thank you, Rita.

“Third, fourth cup of Elijah,” Richard asks. Well, this is a good question. It’s something that’s been debated and the Gemara only talks about four languages of redemption and leaves out another word of redemption, which is to take out “to there,” as opposed to just “take out.” And there was a debate, why shouldn’t we therefore include this additional term of “taking out” as one of the terms of redemption? And this was debated and argued and in the end, they couldn’t come to a conclusion. And so as many things happen when there is a debate in Jewish law, they come to what they call teiku, which is in modern Hebrew, a draw in a football match, but basically means we can’t find a solution to this, stalemate. At some stage the term teiku was taken to mean Elijah the Tishbite will have to solve this problem, because we in the Gemara can’t possibly solve it. So it’s left unanswered until Elijah comes. And so because the fifth cup was the result of this being undecided, that’s how it came to be the cup of Elijah. But also, there’s another reason Elijah is very important when it comes to, let’s say, sits at our birth, the chair of Elijah, when a child is circumcised, Elijah represents the future hope for the future no matter how bad things are up to now. Thank you, Robert. Chag sameach.

Q: Mark Tannenbaum, “What does chag actually mean?

A: L'chagid is to tell, a narrative, it’s a narrative of what happened, but it’s also a narrative of who we are and a narrative of who we want to become. So to tell stories is l'chagid, and this is a story with an end product.

Q: "Is Passover just a story?”

A: Well, maybe Passover is, I have no, shall we say, scientific proof, but that doesn’t mean anything, 'cause lots of things we have, we don’t have scientific proof or archaeological proof. So I honestly don’t know. And I’d go further and say I don’t think it matters. What matters is that this is a tradition that has developed and we believe is a spiritually inspired tradition with important moral messages, and the narratives reinforce these messages. The narratives are not there necessarily to be history but to make history.

Q: “What about Eliahu?”

A: Well, I’ve mentioned a bit there.

Q: “Why do we pour out wrath at a celebration?”

A: Because as we break a glass at a wedding to remind us of the bad things that have happened or to remind us of the people who aren’t here to join us, so we like, at the Haggadah, also to recognise there’s another side to things , thank you.

Q: “Can you play the part where God hardens the heart of Pharaoh? It seems rather cruel.”

A: Yes it does, but it depends how you understand hardening the heart. Again, you shouldn’t take the words of the Bible at face value. It could be another way of saying, look, I know this guy, he’s a stubborn git and that’s how he’s made and that’s how he is and he is never going to change. So don’t be upset if it’s going to take a long time. It’s not going to happen overnight. So it doesn’t necessarily have to mean that actually compelled, but merely to say, as we might say nowadays, we are all conditioned. We’re conditioned by society, we’re conditioned by our genes, by all kinds of things like that. So it doesn’t have to be that God took him and put him in a straitjacket.

Q: “Why do we lean rather than sit up, a great Roman tradition?”

A: Because think of how Roman banquets were. Look at all the films on Netflix and just look up banquets on the internet. And you’ll see they’re all stretched out and they’re all stretched out lifting on the left hand side with their hands available to put the food to the mouth and to be careful not to choke. So this is part of imitating the symposium.

Jeffrey. Hi, Jeffrey. “I never understood why we’re told we have matzah as the people left Egypt in a hurry and the dough didn’t have time to rise and we didn’t make provisions yet in the Torah, we’d give them warning to set aside a lamb and kids, be ready to leave in three days. Surely they would’ve prepared bread for the journey.” Excellent point. Very good point. There are three explanations as to why we eat matzah. One of them is to say this is the bread that our forefathers ate as slaves in Egypt. That’s what they had all the time. They were looking forward to coming out and being able to have a great meal. And they couldn’t, because of the hurry. And that’s why, when they expected you to have a great time, they ended up with the same old food. So you have the idea that matzah was something that was there before, you have the idea that matzah is there, during the actual Exodus period. and you have the idea that matzah is there for us to talk about and to be part of our onward going culture. That’s why they say, matzah is lechem oni, and oni can be understood in Hebrew to mean poverty. It can mean slavery, it can mean where we are, and it can mean what we talk about.

Sheila, “I was , went to meant home-based Elijah came in.” Yes, yes, yes. I will tell them that that’s what were, they were a day too early. Thank you.

Q: “Is the exodus historically viable or is it legendary?”

A: I’ve mentioned that one already. I don’t think it makes any difference whatsoever. It existentially makes a difference if you get something out of it. And if you don’t get anything out of it, you’re not doing it properly. You don’t have to do it all. You do some of it, but get something out of it. Make it a meaningful expression. Thank you, Sharon.

Q: Shelley, “Why in the state of Israel do we still have two instead of one Seder? In Israel, there’s only one Seder.”

A: That’s an excellent subject. It’s a long subject, but I’ll try and get to it as quickly as possible. The original two days was because of a problem with the calendar, and as they had thousands of years ago, fixed the calendar by sighting the new moon and sighting the new moon was the only opportunity to know when it was going to come. And sometimes the new moon was declared by the ecclesiastical authorities at the last minute. And so people didn’t know and initially, therefore, they had two days. But they always had two days for Rosh Hashanah for the reason that that was so significant. And Rosh Hashanah, even in Israel, should be kept for two days. But when they fixed the calendar and knew the calendar roundabout the second century, then there was no need to have two days, because it didn’t take that long to also, another reason is that when they did fix the calendar, it was fixed in Israel and it took time for the information to get back to Babylon. So they had to be a bit flexible for the Babylonians, the exiles. But when it was stopped, then the question says, well, look, why do we need two days anymore? And the rabbis in the town would’ve responded in two ways. One way was to say, look, it’s a custom. We got used to the custom and what’s wrong with having two days? It’s rather nice. And the other was to say, listen, if you don’t like two days, come and live in Israel. So in a sense it was a kind of a punishment for the exile. Now, it’s very tough nowadays living in the Diaspora when you have a business and you can’t take all that time off. And there’s a strong argument which says you should be lenient. My only point is to say I’ve never heard of somebody who wasn’t keeping Pesach, who suddenly decided to keep Pesach 'cause it was only one day. I don’t think legislating to make it only one day is going to make much difference. I think it’s an interesting custom. And the straight answer, as with anything, is you make up your own mind of how much you want to do. And if it’s too much for you, well then you take a personal decision. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we should change the law, 'cause it’s not a bad idea to remind us of these things.

Q: “Why do we interrupt Hallel for the meal? Why don’t we just sit and then eat?”

A: David, an excellent question and I think that’s a very, just a practical issue. I can’t think of any reason other than a practical issue that it would take too long. We want to spread things out a little bit and people want to get to the food. And the food was brought on these tables, placed before us, and then taken away when it was finished.

Q: Judith, “Do we do anything the last night of Passover?”

A: Well, after Passover, the last two days are just a festival like any other festival except the dietary conditions. And we start counting the Omer, the 49 days that prepare for until we get to Shavuot. But there is no specific different custom for the last day or the last night of Passover. As soon as it’s out, you start taking down the old dishes and put the Pesach dishes away.

“Lean to left; our bodies work better. The Romans knew this.” Oh, yes. The Talmud also said they knew it. They said you are less likely to choke on the food. , so that your windpipe won’t get in the way. Some people argue about this, some medical people argue about this, but nevertheless, that’s what they thought at the time in the temple.

Q: “Please explain about rice and kidney art.”

A: This is a very good question. This is a big difference between the Sephardi world and the Ashkenazi world. Literally, kitniyot means beans and pulses. And in Europe, it developed in Europe, in Eastern Europe, not before that, they used to put all the grains in sacks together and these sacks would intermingle. And so whether it was rice with grain, with peas, with beans, and everything like that, they would intermingle. And in a dark, damp climate, very often these pulses, these beans would start fermenting and shooting. And they considered this was one form of fermentation. In a dry climate, that doesn’t happen. But in a damp European climate, it did. And so in mediaeval times they decided, look, you know, let’s keep off this. Let’s not bother with it anymore. And there are lots of examples of where things were forbidden out of uncertainty or anxiety or clarification that now we are certain about, we don’t know. I’ll give you another example that’s relevant for Pesach and that is glass. Glass is considered by the Schulchan Aruch to be something that doesn’t absorb meat or milk. And therefore as nonabsorbent, you can use it on Pesach without having to kashrut it. Later on, they began to argue that it was a custom to kashrut glass, because it can get scratched maybe or because it’s not that absorbent. But nevertheless, they believed that it was not absorbent. But to what extent? Now, stainless steel is less absorbent than glass and scratches less than glass does. And yet, stainless steel cannot be used for meat or milk. Yet, knowing this, people choose to be strict. Now, I personally see absolutely no reason why you should not use glass, as long as it’s clean, for meat or milk, or indeed, to use glass on Pesach. If you can afford other plates, that’s up to you.

Q: “Why is Pesach seven or eight out of Israel days?”

A: Well, again, I mentioned because of the custom of two days, Yom Tov, whereas Pesach, so there’s only one last day of Yom Tov, whereas in the Diaspora, we have two.

Andrea asks, “Someone told me the other day the neighbour has a problem, didn’t know what to do, everyone fell asleep, and didn’t share the afikoman, and therefore, the meal was unfinished.” Well, yes it was. And the straight answer is if they’re falling asleep, curtail it, chop out the middle, and move to the end.

Anyway, at that point, I will bid you all farewell. Wish you all a very happy Pesach. Enjoy it wherever you are and with whoever you are. And if you’re alone with your wife, have a good time together. And if you are alone by yourself, try and make the best of it. At least have plenty of good wine. Chag sameach, kasher Pesach, happy Pesach. Bye.